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The NHL took over ownership in 2009 though so things were already rocky before then, and they haven’t been much better since.
NHL Team Moving?
Interesting. It really felt like a bigger drop off after 2014. The fans who were there made it feel more full
I do think arena location has a huge impact. The Phoenix metropolitan region is huge. The Panthers have struggled historically with attendance because their arena is not in a great location either being almost an hour from Miami. The Ottawa Senators have struggled with attendance because their arena isn't even in Ottawa. Winning does lead to attendance bumps but I feel like it ultimately leads to the old realtor saying, "Location, Location, Location!"
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Depends who you ask. Most would say it’s in a great location unless you live in Miami.
That's a fair thought depending on where people live. The Panthers have been in that location for 30 years and have had a chance to build the market around them even though they play a 45 minute drive from the Miami Heat. Is there an ideal location for any sport in that area? it seems baseball and soccer both suffer from terrible locations down there too.
Perhaps Ft. Lauderdale to Sunrise is a better proximity to all the northern snow birds who spend winters in South Florida. I know I was down there 9 years ago for the holidays with my ex girlfriend at her aunt and uncle's house in Coral Springs. I wanted to go to a game while I was there but the only 2 teams in town that week were the only 2 teams that sold out the arena at that time. The Maple Leafs and the Canadiens. Any other night and tickets were easily obtainable and cheap. I wanted to try to see a game last year around this time when I was down to see my nephew play baseball in Jupiter but that was an hour's drive from the house we had AirBnB'd.
Maybe Scottsdale could be a better location for the Coyotes in the future if they want or need to take better advantage of winter snow birds and people who travel for golf trips. I've just always heard that getting to Glendale for a weeknight game was a traffic nightmare.
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Well one team is the miami heat. The Panthers are not Miami, by design. Created as south florida.
That area has gone through quite a demographics change.
Miami wouldn’t be successful for hockey and many believe it has to go even further North to accommodate Boca and Palm Beach, rather than Sunrise and coral springs.
But it works now and it’s next to one of the best shopping areas in the country.
The state is where the NHL players want to be for a number of reasons, so both teams will not have to worry too much about fans long term.
I think it is a done deal. The coyotes are playing in a college hockey arena right now. The ownership can’t bid on the state land here until end of June and wouldn’t have an arena built until 2027.
I think the Coyotes move and then PHX can try for an expansion team once they have the land and can build a new arena.
Playing at ASU in front of 5000 fans was supposed to be a stopgap and is untenable until 2027.
I think the Coyotes move and then PHX can try for an expansion team once they have the land and can build a new arena.
Playing at ASU in front of 5000 fans was supposed to be a stopgap and is untenable until 2027.
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They had a good run but it was time, best of luck in Salt Lake City. I think it’s a great move for the league
The strange thing is the part about buying out the Coyotes ownership, selling it to Smith, but giving AZ 5 years or so to build an arena and apply for an expansion franchise. Wild if you ask me.
As an old Adams Division fan, Quebec City has the arena and fan support. Hartford might as well but to a lesser extent.
As an old Adams Division fan, Quebec City has the arena and fan support. Hartford might as well but to a lesser extent.
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Quebec may get another shot in expansion but the dwindling attendance in Winnipeg for a winning team has to be concerning for the league when Quebec City is a slightly smaller area.
Hockey will never return to Hartford. It suffered because it was too close to everything else. Everyone there is going to either be a Bruins fan or a Rangers fan. They just couldn't ever get a new arena and it's going to be hard to convert fans back to a Whalers team in that part of the country. That being said, I'd love a Whalers jersey and I enjoy it when the Hurricanes wear it even though there are people in CT that are still bitter. The Whalers almost moved to Columbus instead of Carolina but we didn't have an arena ready for them to play in. They were going to modify a hangar at the airport to temporarily house the team until a real arena was built.
I think Salt Lake is the best outcome for the mess that was the Coyotes. I also think it is crazy to offer them another team in 5 years if they can somehow get their act together. This insane rush to expand is craziness. Every city able to support a hockey team already has one.
We don't need more expansion. I'd be afraid of diluting the product especially in a new market. Unless of course the league alters the expansion draft yet again to give Bettman's project teams a leg up.
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Expansion is coming.
Atlanta, Phoenix, Portland, Indy, KC and Quebec all being discussed
The biggest hunk of BS that makes absolutely no sense is that taxpayers get stuck footing the bill for stadiums for private businesses. If their business modekl is such that they cant afford to build their own facilities, perhaps their overhead is too high. Payroll deduction would be a logical place to start. The contention that these teams create jobs for the local economy is nonsense as well. Studies have proven that the vast majority of the jobs created are part time service jobs, there is no positive outcome for the taxpayers. Let the teams support themselves or fold.
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The last part isn’t true. With stadiums, come many full time career path jobs including hotels, etc.
There are studies that show both but as someone that has been on both sides and despises taxes as anybody on this forum knows, they absolutely bring jobs.
The studies on the other side never seem to point to all of the business on the outside close to arena or stadium they thrive or get created strictly because of it. And for those that believe hotels would be there anyway? They wouldn’t
I can find little real material that amounts to anything more than propaganda that shows real long term positive economic outcomes to justify taxpayers paying for stadiums. I'd be interested in anything anyone has because this has been a hot button issue of mine for decades.
The Economics of Sports Stadiums: Does public financing of sports stadiums create local economic growth, or just help billionaires improve their profit margin?
KARTHIK VEGESNA - APRIL 4, 2019 Sports fans can be irrational. To someone watching from
econreview.studentorg.berkeley.edu
Sports, Jobs, & Taxes: Are New Stadiums Worth the Cost? | Brookings
Brookings Review article by Roger G. Noll and Andrew Zimbalist (Summer 1997)
www.brookings.edu
Economics Of Subsidizing Sports Stadiums | St. Louis Fed
Professional sports give people pride and a sense of community. But should taxpayers subsidize stadiums?
research.stlouisfed.org
hartman29
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The ESPN 30 for 30 on the recent sagas of the Coyotes and Oakland A’s are going to be fascinating to watch.
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This is absolutely true. At this point the only part of SF that is safe or walkable is where the Giants play. 25 years ago it was the most dangerous least desirable place with no business. We used to cut through it on third street as a quick exit from Niners games.
Owners should pay for stadiums on their own. But not creating business is just not true.
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Agree completely.
I think most of us can agree billionaire owners should fund stadiums without public support or tax breaks. Not sure if it applies to the Coyotes but I believe it's now happening with the Diamondbacks.
I personally get so outraged when the owners complain about losing money, paying luxury taxes, salaries, guaranteed contracts (NFL) etc. when their team values seem to double every year.
Asking communities to share the cost is ludicrous. Crazy to me you're taking taxpayers hostage to invest $ or the team will go elsewhere and the leagues allow it.
Even when you have full community support with losing teams (St. Louis Rams for instance) greedy owners still want more and can get up and move for more lucrative TV contracts.
Sad to see the Coyotes go. Enjoy SLC.
Still bitter about the Sonics too.
I personally get so outraged when the owners complain about losing money, paying luxury taxes, salaries, guaranteed contracts (NFL) etc. when their team values seem to double every year.
Asking communities to share the cost is ludicrous. Crazy to me you're taking taxpayers hostage to invest $ or the team will go elsewhere and the leagues allow it.
Even when you have full community support with losing teams (St. Louis Rams for instance) greedy owners still want more and can get up and move for more lucrative TV contracts.
Sad to see the Coyotes go. Enjoy SLC.
Still bitter about the Sonics too.
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I caught that from Elliot Friedman too last night. What a bizarre situation! He made it sound like it’d be a “new franchise” somehow…
And as a former Nordiques fan, I really hope it can work out in Quebec again somehow.
That Good Friday Massacre with the Canadiens was stuff of legend. Hope they get a team soon. I think of Bergeron growing up in Quebec City and how many legends went through there. Could've should've had a Cup in 1996! After the fanfare in the Peg brining the Jets back, I'm sure it would be worth it. I think the market is there personally.