The Liv Golf Rumor and News Thread

[Greg Kulbick]

LIV is just the PGL rebranded, same thing with full Saudi backing.

"All along, the PGL – elements of which would appear to have been adopted by LIV Golf Investments – had proposed a league that would have 18 events, with a majority in North America."

"Gardiner (PGL) unveils his proposal of an 18-event schedule — 10 events in the U.S. and others in Europe, Asia, Australia and the Middle East — that could begin in January 2022."

How We Got Here: A Timeline of LIV Golf and How the PGA Tour Eventually Embraced Its Rival - Sports Illustrated

LIV Golf officially launched in June 2021 and will continue in 2024. Here's how the rival league emerged and the PGA Tour's reactions.

www.si.com

How Greg Norman's league became the PGA Tour's rival

A developing timeline involving the upstart LIV Golf Invitational Series, the PGA Tour, the Premier Golf League and the players who may decide their fate

www.firstcallgolf.com

There's no evidence that Greg Norman and the people behind LIV ever intended to keep the new tour to just 8 events, or do something like Aramco, work with the PGAT schedule, they wanted this to be a big tour from day one.

Can you provide evidence that had the PGAT came to the table that they wouldn't have kept it to just 8 events?

Saying there's no evidence of something doesn't refute it.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

LIV is just the PGL rebranded, same thing with full Saudi backing.

"All along, the PGL – elements of which would appear to have been adopted by LIV Golf Investments – had proposed a league that would have 18 events, with a majority in North America."

"Gardiner (PGL) unveils his proposal of an 18-event schedule — 10 events in the U.S. and others in Europe, Asia, Australia and the Middle East — that could begin in January 2022."

How We Got Here: A Timeline of LIV Golf and How the PGA Tour Eventually Embraced Its Rival - Sports Illustrated

LIV Golf officially launched in June 2021 and will continue in 2024. Here's how the rival league emerged and the PGA Tour's reactions.

www.si.com

How Greg Norman's league became the PGA Tour's rival

A developing timeline involving the upstart LIV Golf Invitational Series, the PGA Tour, the Premier Golf League and the players who may decide their fate

www.firstcallgolf.com

There's no evidence that Greg Norman and the people behind LIV ever intended to keep the new tour to just 8 events, or do something like Aramco, work with the PGAT schedule, they wanted this to be a big tour from day one.

PGL does look the same product, however it is owned by the UK-based World Golf Group Limited which is totally different entity from PIF. However, PIF could have just bought the rights to PGL or PGL targeted PIF for investment. So, since they are two totally different entities, they could have had different ideas for the tours, but that is just my speculation theory. However, I still look at Aramco which is owned/run by the PIF and they have not done anything (so far) to take over the LPGA and LET. Nobody knows for sure unless you were in those LIV closed door meetings a few years ago before they started.

I still think it would have been better for the PGA tour, if they just let the PGA players play a few events. If LIV looked like more of a threat after that, then they could have done what they decided to do and ban all players from playing. I think that would have been a better approach. But regardless, here we are now. I think a deal with the PIF will happen. I don't think that the PGA tour will turn away 3 billion in investments from the PIF. Just my couch surfing opinions.

 

[funkysi]

Greg Norman is just so full of

Said this “Talor Gooch is the best iron player in the game of golf in the past 20 years that I’ve personally witnessed,” said the two-time major champion.

He's not even the best on LIV.

 

[JB]

Greg Norman is just so full of

Said this “Talor Gooch is the best iron player in the game of golf in the past 20 years that I’ve personally witnessed,” said the two-time major champion.

He's not even the best on LIV.

If its not Gooch, who is it? For all of the flaws in his game, his irons are unfreaking believable.
Its what Morikawa was supposed to be and is when hot.

 

[Wildcat]

If its not Gooch, who is it? For all of the flaws in his game, his irons are unfreaking believable.
Its what Morikawa was supposed to be and is when hot.

I thought Scheffler was honestly. I'm not saying Gooch isn't a great iron player (or in the conversation for the best) but I'd think I'd still take Scottie. He seems like the best ball striker in quite a while.

 

[JB]

I thought Scheffler was honestly. I'm not saying Gooch isn't a great iron player (or in the conversation for the best) but I'd think I'd still take Scottie. He seems like the best ball striker in quite a while.

It is pretty much those two. Obviously Norman will say Gooch, and anybody PGA Tour will say Scottie.
I just didnt find it completely nonsensical as others I guess.

 

[funkysi]

If its not Gooch, who is it? For all of the flaws in his game, his irons are unfreaking believable.
Its what Morikawa was supposed to be and is when hot.

Quick search on datagolf, he's behind Rahm and Nieman on LIV and is 1.5 shots behind Scottie who is best without doubt right now. Best in the LAST 20 years??

I'm not saying he isn't a good iron player, but that comment is just ridiculous.

 

[JB]

Quick search on datagolf, he's behind Rahm and Nieman on LIV and is 1.5 shots behind Scottie who is best without doubt right now. Best in the LAST 20 years?? My arse

Data on "iron ball striking" is marginal at best.
But based on your thoughts on LIV, I am guessing he could literally show perfection and it would be flawed haha.

I kid, I kid...

 

[funkysi]

Data on "iron ball striking" is marginal at best.
But based on your thoughts on LIV, I am guessing he could literally show perfection and it would be flawed haha.

I kid, I kid...

Shots gained approach is the closest we've got and he's not even top 10.
I'm pretty ambivolent on LIV itself as a tour. I don't really care about it, I don't watch it but plenty do and it has some great players. Its the whole LIV is the best thing that irks me. As much as the PGA gets pelters, and rightly so as its a shambles of a product right now, LIV is really no better for the t*t-for-tat squabbling. If Monaghan and Norman went away tomorrow it wouldn't be too soon.

Back on Gooch, is he really better then Rahm and Niemann? No where close to Scottie.

 

[JB]

I'm pretty ambivolent on LIV itself as a tour. I don't really care about it, I don't watch it but plenty do and it has some great players. Its the whole LIV is the best thing that irks me. As much as the PGA gets pelters, and rightly so as its a shambles of a product right now, LIV is really no better for the t*t-for-tat squabbling. If Monaghan and Norman went away tomorrow it wouldn't be too soon.

Back on Gooch, is he really better then Rahm and Niemann? No where close to Scottie.

Better? No, nor would anybody say that. As a pure iron striker? I think he is better than both and close to Scottie.
Just as many would say Morikawa is in the conversation as well. Using approach data as an iron ball striking judge is flawed at best. For starters, not all are done with irons. Second, someone can be a great ball striker and not score.

 

[funkysi]

Better? No, nor would anybody say that. As a pure iron striker? I think he is better than both and close to Scottie.
Just as many would say Morikawa is in the conversation as well. Using approach data as an iron ball striking judge is flawed at best. For starters, not all are done with irons. Second, someone can be a great ball striker and not score.

Sorry, I meant better ball striker. Sergio was up there for a long time. Don't forget in the last 20 years we've had Sergio, TIGER, Ernie Els, peak Rory, Phil etc.... Thats only off the top of my head.

 

[Sean]

Too bad the PGAT no longer plays Doral. Great course, which requires some thought as you navigate your way around.

 

[Karl]

I'm looking forward to watching the LIV guys compete again at the Masters.

 

[razaar]

I thought Scheffler was honestly. I'm not saying Gooch isn't a great iron player (or in the conversation for the best) but I'd think I'd still take Scottie. He seems like the best ball striker in quite a while.

It raises the question - were the previous generation of tour pros better golfers than today's stars?
Scottie was taught a sliding pivot rarely seen today. Gooch has a rotational pivot . The longevity of a sliding/lateral pivot is suspect, not so with a rotational pivot.
It will be interesting to see how long Scottie can hold form as a premium ball striker.

 

[macolyte]

The last 20 years include some pretty good Tiger years, too.

 

[Karl]

Hard to say because players get streaky. Look at Mr 58,59 Jim Furyk. Most dominant years- Tiger.

 

[Hacker67]

I'm looking forward to watching the LIV guys compete again at the Masters.

Don't expect to see many LIV guys on TV as the tournament is on a network that has contracts with PGAT. Giving LIV players a platform is not in the Networks or the PGAT's best interest.

Last year at a Major (forget which one) Richard Bland was the leader for 1 1/2 days and they didn't show one shot of his. I'm fully prepared for this to be nothing more than a glorified PGAT signature event.

In some ways, I wished the 13 LIV players would've sat out this Masters in solitary with their LIV brothers who were all denied OWGR. Fred Riley is on the OWGR and played a part in the denial.

 

[macolyte]

Don't expect to see many LIV guys on TV as the tournament is on a network that has contracts with PGAT. Giving LIV players a platform is not in the Networks or the PGAT's best interest.

Last year at a Major (forget which one) Richard Bland was the leader for 1 1/2 days and they didn't show one shot of his. I'm fully prepared for this to be nothing more than a glorified PGAT signature event.

In some ways, I wished the 13 LIV players would've sat out this Masters in solitary with their LIV brothers who were all denied OWGR. Fred Riley is on the OWGR and played a part in the denial.

There is exactly one entity that decides how the broadcast is looking like at the Masters. Hint: It’s not CBS or the PGA Tour.

 

[Hacker67]

There is exactly one entity that decides how the broadcast is looking like at the Masters. Hint: It’s not CBS or the PGA Tour.

Is that the entity that didn't give Gooch and Burmester an invite?

 

[macolyte]

Is that the entity that didn't give Gooch and Burmester an invite?

Exactly - And the same entity that gave an invite to Niemann.

 

[Sean]

Don't expect to see many LIV guys on TV

If they are in contention I would expect to see them quite often.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

It raises the question - were the previous generation of tour pros better golfers than today's stars?
Scottie was taught a sliding pivot rarely seen today. Gooch has a rotational pivot . The longevity of a sliding/lateral pivot is suspect, not so with a rotational pivot.
It will be interesting to see how long Scottie can hold form as a premium ball striker.

Longevity with injuries or with technique success?

 

[Sean]

I think there are 51 PGAT players with a legit chance to win. There are 13 LIV golfers competing. So a LIV golfer putting on the green jacket on Sunday isn't farfetched.

 

[razaar]

Longevity with injuries or with technique success?

Both. Greg Norman is a case in point. I first saw him play as an amateur in 1976. He had a very upright swing with a lateral hip slide . I saw him again in 1983 practicing (there was just the two of us) in Mt Isa where he was born. He played an exhibition match the next day for the locals. His swing then was a neutral plane with a rotational pivot.
All his near misses in majors were caused by a blocked shot to the right at a crucial time. The cause was that lateral pivot popping up in extreme pressure situations.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

Both. Greg Norman is a case in point. I first saw him play as an amateur in 1976. He had a very upright swing with a lateral hip slide . I saw him again in 1983 practicing (there was just the two of us) in Mt Isa where he was born. He played an exhibition match the next day for the locals. His swing then was a neutral plane with a rotational pivot.
All his near misses in majors were caused by a blocked shot to the right at a crucial time. The cause was that lateral pivot popping up in extreme pressure situations.

Tons of pros get stuck on high pressure shots. Scottie has been swinging that way likely his entire life with tons of success at every level. I don't really agree that his swing doesn't have longevity or will be injury prone.

A lot of best pros in history and currently have what would be considered technical "flaws" in their golf swings. However, I consider it more of that is just their own golf swing that developed from just playing rather than getting too overly technical to make their swings technically correct. Don't get me wrong, the technically correct golf swing has complete merit, but not everyone can physically have the technically correct golf swing. There are many ways to swing the club and produce repeatable quality golf shots.

That is why I think Butch Harmon is one of the best. He works with what the player has and doesn't go to far out of the limitations and boundaries of what the player can do physically. He is not necessarily trying make every player swing the perfect golf swing. There are a lot of instructors that have a specific ideology of their perfect golf swing and try to make every player swing that way, but it is just is not possible for everyone.