Harrison Shotmaker - THP Preview

[Hawk]

That's not what you said. That's why I quoted you. You said the dimensions were 'quite different'.

Glad to know 'users' are reporting compatibility for you with Aldila and Fuji. That's a hell of an R&D group you have there.

 

[ddec]

Is there some sort of compatibility machine? Or do they just see that it doesn't work for the customer and deem the shaft 'incompatible'? According to you, a shaft that you list as compatible on your website - but incompatible in a message to me after it didn't work - didn't work because "Miyazaki shafts' internal dimension are quite different than the external dimension of the Shotmaker."

That's a quote by the way.

that's exactly my question too!

So, who's wrong?

You?

Your website?

Me for thinking that it should be clear whether or not my $200 driver shaft would be compatible with your $150 insert before I buy it?

Usually I'd say you Hawk, but not this time around. If I was to drop $150 on something like this, I'd want to check to make sure it will work before I drop that kind of cash. A 30 day money back guarantee doesn't mean anything to me. I'd rather hold on to the money rather than dealing with the extra hassle

 

[fastmc]

With the shaft in hand, a dealer will be able to tell fairly quickly by install the Shotmaker inside the shaft.

Look, why go through the trial and error by yourself? Our dealers are happy to help you. They do this for a living.

maybe a skim alert, but how would they tell if it is compatible? Is it by fit or performance?

 

[fastmc]

If you work with a local dealer, you do not need to drop a dime until you see the performace differece.

that's exactly my question too!
Usually I'd say you Hawk, but not this time around. If I was to drop $150 on something like this, I'd want to check to make sure it will work before I drop that kind of cash. A 30 day money back guarantee doesn't mean anything to me. I'd rather hold on to the money rather than dealing with the extra hassle

 

[Hawk]

Then why sell it to customers directly if fitting is so crucial? Why provide me a list when you provided conflicting information through direct consultation. It's poor customer service.

 

[ddxu]

Look, why go through the trial and error by yourself? Our dealers are happy to help you. They do this for a living.

Why sell it direct to consumers then?

 

[fastmc]

If you talk to any product manager of the top 5 golf companies, they will all tell you that they place much higher emphasis on player test data.

That's not what you said. That's why I quoted you. You said the dimensions were 'quite different'.

Glad to know 'users' are reporting compatibility for you with Aldila and Fuji. That's a hell of an R&D group you have there.

 

[JB]

What you stated make it an even strong point to work with a local dealer so that you do not need to risk anything.

The reality is golfers have everything to gain from the Shotmaker and nothing to lose, particularly when he/she works work with a local dealer.

By the way, the Shotmaker strengths the shaft, not weakening it.

Actually that is ONLY when he/she works with a local dealer. Because using your videos, instructions and tools online could lead to quite a bit to lose if it causes an issue or gets completely stuck in the shaft like we are seeing now.

With the shaft in hand, a dealer will be able to tell fairly quickly by install the Shotmaker inside the shaft.

Look, why go through the trial and error by yourself? Our dealers are happy to help you. They do this for a living.

Myself and most of THP are 11000000% behind fitting. However as a company that offers install videos and advice for people to do things on their own, it is a little concerning to know that this advice is not actually company tested, but just word of mouth on what might fit and what might not. If I buy it, you offer a money back guarantee on the Shotmaker, but if it gets stuck in the shaft or causes damage, you, nor the shaft company are going to replace that.

Yes that leads back to seeing a fitter, but that is not entirely how the product is marketed.

 

[JB]

If you talk to any product manager of the top 5 golf companies, they will all tell you that they place much higher emphasis on player test data.

Player test data is quite important in a controlled group like they gather. I can call each of them right now and not one will tell me that their shaft and head compatibility chart is based on forum members around the internet. They have to stand behind those kinds of things for obvious reasons.

 

[ddec]

If you work with a local dealer, you do not need to drop a dime until you see the performace differece.

I understand that fittings for shafts or this product would always be the preferred way to go. But I can tell you that I have yet to see this in any golf stores around me. For some one to go at it alone, it seems like it would be a real hassle.

 

[Hawk]

If you talk to any product manager of the top 5 golf companies, they will all tell you that they place much higher emphasis on player test data.

Do they rely on player test data to tell them if a shaft fits in a head? That's more similar to what you said the problem was. Your product didn't 'fit' in my shaft.

 

[fastmc]

Mainly marketing reason that is tied to web advertsing. The truth is we receive roughly 3 online orders per week, but if we do not sell online, our ranking will be low.

Why sell it direct to consumers then?

 

[Hawk]

I'm going to one of your dealers this weekend. I'm curious to see just how much they know about compatiblity.

 

[JB]

Mainly marketing reason that is tied to web advertsing. The truth is we receive roughly 3 online orders per week, but if we do not sell online, our ranking will be low.

Hmmmm.
Really? Have you looked into that further?
I find it incredibly different that the main reason to sell to consumers despite not agreeing with them installing themselves is strictly for ranking via marketing.

 

[fastmc]

It could be. That was why we provided so much information ( http://www.harrison.com/Techcorners/shotmaker-golf-shaft-insert) to make it as easy as possible for any interested golfer.

By the way, after your purchase, if you find out that you got the wrong flex, please do ask for an exchange. We as well as our dealers will be happy to do that for you.

I understand that fittings for shafts or this product would always be the preferred way to go. But I can tell you that I have yet to see this in any golf stores around me. For some one to go at it alone, it seems like it would be a real hassle.

 

[fastmc]

Really. Nextag recently sued Google for ranking them low, and Google contered by saying the Nextag did not sell online so their ranking was low. It was on most newspapers.

Hmmmm.
Really? Have you looked into that further?
I find it incredibly different that the main reason to sell to consumers despite not agreeing with them installing themselves is strictly for ranking via marketing.

 

[Hawk]

My job here is to give an honest opinion of a product and make sure people have some good solid advice before throwing out money they earned.

I never said that I felt it couldn't help some people. What I did say is that the information available and the R & D for 'compatiblity" were lacking.

You literally just came here and proved that 1000 times over.

 

[ddec]

It could be. That was why we provided so much information to make it as easy as possible for any interested golfer.

But the most important piece of information that you offer(that I would have to search for in your forums), is whether or not the shotmaker is compatible with my driver shaft. The list seems to be done by word of mouth and seems to be incomplete and inaccurate.

 

[JB]

Player test data is quite important in a controlled group like they gather. I can call each of them right now and not one will tell me that their shaft and head compatibility chart is based on forum members around the internet. They have to stand behind those kinds of things for obvious reasons.

Do they rely on player test data to tell them if a shaft fits in a head? That's more similar to what you said the problem was. Your product didn't 'fit' in my shaft.

OEM - Hey JB whats the story.

JB - I have an odd question for you.

OEM - I like odd things at times, that is why I have an ex-wife. Whats the question.

JB - Which is more important R&D or Player Data?

OEM - Both are important, but you cannot have 1 without the other.

JB - Explain further please.

OEM - In order to even get to the player data compilation stage, you must have your research and development down. While tweaks can be made, or projects scrapped after the data has been accumulated, there would be no way to accumulate data without the R&D done first. The entire idea of the D, is the development. Hard to gather numbers on something that has not been developed yet right?

JB - Makes sense. I might be calling you in 30 with another odd question.

OEM - Im here to make your life easier. Actually Im not, so remember that next time. [laughter]

 

[fastmc]

Hawk, I really do appreciate that you purposely take a hypothetical oppositve view point and compel me to respond. This is great journalism. I understand that all along.

My job here is to give an honest opinion of a product and make sure people have some good solid advice before throwing out money they earned.

I never said that I felt it couldn't help some people. What I did say is that the information available and the R & D for 'compatiblity" were lacking.

You literally just came here and proved that 1000 times over.

 

[fastmc]

Once the 2 new inserts become available, I can assure you that most of the compatibility issues will go away. We have done extensive number crunching on that.

But the most important piece of information that you offer(that I would have to search for in your forums), is whether or not the shotmaker is compatible with my driver shaft. The list seems to be done by word of mouth and seems to be incomplete and inaccurate.

 

[JB]

But the most important piece of information that you offer(that I would have to search for in your forums), is whether or not the shotmaker is compatible with my driver shaft. The list seems to be done by word of mouth and seems to be incomplete and inaccurate.

This is my only issue and its a major one for me.

 

[smgoldstein]

I'm going to a clubfitter this weekend to gather more info. So far not convinced.

 

[fastmc]

If this is a golfer's main concern, it is an easy one to overcome. Visit a local Shotmaker dealer and let the dealer test your shaft to see if it is compatible. It only takes a couple of minutes.

If it is not compatible, you did not lose anything. If it is compatible, you have one more option to boost your accuracy. What do you have to lose?

This is my only issue and its a major one for me.

 

[Smallville]

Wow. I think it sucks you are getting nowhere fast with this Hawk.