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Thinking of moving to a "more forgiving iron. Thoughts of the masses

SuperStroke
Im going to give a set of jpx 923s hot metal pro's from the classifieds a shot.
 
Ajcoop20 said:
like most mid/high cappers, i struggle with fat/thin shots. Ive been fighting a slight over the top move for a few years, combined with a flip (my miss is generally either a top or i will pull hook) those are obviously things that i need to work on with my mechanics. When all my timing is on, i can play pretty good golf, so im wondering if by going to a more forgiving iron, if i may save my self a few shots around, but perhaps advancing the ball further, or keeping me out of a bunker because I didnt pure it.
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Going to a more forgiving iron will help a good bit. Missing high/low on the face, as well as laterally will drastically lead to less penalizing shots. Also, a higher ballflight might help as well, which is what a more forgiving set usually offers. As far as advancing the ball further, the same as before, your misses will be less penalizing, and will allow for a "miss" to still go straighter and longer.
 
Ajcoop20 said:
I currently game mizuno pro 223s which obviously are way more capable than my game is. Im streaky, during 9 hole league play, i can shoot 38 or 52, and its usually due to poor iron play on my part. Ive always been a mizuno guy and love the looks of the 223s. Im currently like a 15.5 or so HCP. Im wondering what the masses think, if i go to something a bit more forgiving, what is the likelyhood that my hcp will decrease, im also interested in guys thoughts on a little more forgiving set, I hate looking at thick toplines, but i could go a little beefier, my previous set was callaway cf16 forged, for reference.
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Apex 21…. I probably know where a clean set is as a great deal.
 
Give the Callaway Ai Smoke a look! I was surprised at how good they look behind the ball. I was even more surprised with how much fun and how easy they were to hit.
 
Ajcoop20 said:
Thanks guys, has anyone seen a noticeable decrease in their handicap just by switching to a bit more forgiving iron, in the modern club era ?
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So many factors. How do you define “noticeable”? What’s your miss? No club head alone will fix a chunk. If people could buy a game then handicaps would be far lower today versus 20 years ago but they’re not. Depending on which facts you choose to believe, handicaps have improved anywhere from 0 to 2 strokes over that past 20 years, and even if you decide to go high with 2 strokes that’s across drivers, irons, balls, putters, YT, all kinds of things. Everything I’ve experienced playing with many people over many years seems to support something closer to 0 but that’s just me. That said, none of that has ever stopped anyone (including me) from buying new irons and you should play what you enjoy playing.
 
Ajcoop20 said:
Im going to give a set of jpx 923s hot metal pro's from the classifieds a shot.
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My son plays those. Fantastic irons. I am seriously considering them myself.
 
Is there any reason why the new Paradym Smoke irons are retailing at 30% less than the older Paradym model? ($999 vs $1,499). Usually, the older model/version gets discounted relative to the newer model, but this is the other way around?
 
Ajcoop20 said:
Im going to give a set of jpx 923s hot metal pro's from the classifieds a shot.
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I’m curious how this will turn out. I’m playing the MP 18 MMC’s and was wondering if the HMP’s might give me a little of my aging iron game back? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
bulls9999 said:
Is there any reason why the new Paradym Smoke irons are retailing at 30% less than the older Paradym model? ($999 vs $1,499). Usually, the older model/version gets discounted relative to the newer model, but this is the other way around?
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I can't really say why there is a price difference, but will say that even though Paradym was released last year they are still considered a current Callaway product line.
 
Having a range from 38-52 on nine holes to me speaks more to poor ball striking way more than your irons being unforgiving. i was hitting my irons poorly (lots of toe strikes) and made a simple swing adjustment and hitting them very well now. Yeah forgiveness may help for a few strokes here and there but thats it. I also had large stroke differences till I made this change. For context i'm about a 10 hcp and play PING I525 irons. Not trying to insult you but thats my take
 
pinger_72 said:
Having a range from 38-52 on nine holes to me speaks more to poor ball striking way more than your irons being unforgiving. i was hitting my irons poorly (lots of toe strikes) and made a simple swing adjustment and hitting them very well now. Yeah forgiveness may help for a few strokes here and there but thats it. I also had large stroke differences till I made this change. For context i'm about a 10 hcp and play PING I525 irons. Not trying to insult you but thats my take
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Not insulted at all, I’m fully aware my ball striking is a dumpster fire at times haha
 
I think forgiveness can be a bit overrated. For example, I once had a set of ultra game improvement irons. I had a hard time with them (I hooked them more often than not). One day out on the course I was struggling and my playing partner handed me one of his irons and said, "Try this." It was a Nike VR forged blade. I hit a nice high slight draw. I played the rest of the round with them and had much better results than the UGI irons. This was just my experience though and I know many would disagree with me.
 
bulls9999 said:
Is there any reason why the new Paradym Smoke irons are retailing at 30% less than the older Paradym model? ($999 vs $1,499). Usually, the older model/version gets discounted relative to the newer model, but this is the other way around?
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AI Smoke didn't replace Paradym. They replaced Rogue ST Max line. Callaway considers them part of the "core" iron line, which generally prices a little lower becuase they are trying to hit a certain price point.
 
ZX 4 mk ll or Stealth.

The Stealth is more forgiving lower on the face and has a hotter face. $799

The ZX 4 has incredible dispersion and more horizontal forgiveness. $1100
 
Ajcoop20 said:
I currently game mizuno pro 223s which obviously are way more capable than my game is. Im streaky, during 9 hole league play, i can shoot 38 or 52, and its usually due to poor iron play on my part. Ive always been a mizuno guy and love the looks of the 223s. Im currently like a 15.5 or so HCP. Im wondering what the masses think, if i go to something a bit more forgiving, what is the likelyhood that my hcp will decrease, im also interested in guys thoughts on a little more forgiving set, I hate looking at thick toplines, but i could go a little beefier, my previous set was callaway cf16 forged, for reference.
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Definitely would suggest looking at

Callaway AI Smoke
Mizuno 923 HM (no info at all, but per typical cycle, may be an upgrade here later this year / early next)
Cobra DarkSpeed
Titleist T200s
 
Sean said:
I think forgiveness can be a bit overrated. For example, I once had a set of ultra game improvement irons. I had a hard time with them (I hooked them more often than not). One day out on the course I was struggling and my playing partner handed me one of his irons and said, "Try this." It was a Nike VR forged blade. I hit a nice high slight draw. I played the rest of the round with them and had much better results than the UGI irons. This was just my experience though and I know many would disagree with me.
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The Nike iron was probably a better fit for you (Lie, shaft etc)
 
pinger_72 said:
The Nike iron was probably a better fit for you (Lie, shaft etc)
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And we don’t know which UGI irons they bested that day. If the Nikes were current at the time it’s likely the UGI’s were of similar vintage and maybe not up to today’s tech standards. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
bulls9999 said:
Is there any reason why the new Paradym Smoke irons are retailing at 30% less than the older Paradym model? ($999 vs $1,499). Usually, the older model/version gets discounted relative to the newer model, but this is the other way around?
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I've since learned that the original Paradym's are forged faces while the new Paradym Smoke are cast and that's why the price difference?
 
Ajcoop20 said:
Thanks guys, has anyone seen a noticeable decrease in their handicap just by switching to a bit more forgiving iron, in the modern club era ? Obviously a lot of guys did when they went from their mcgregor and wilson blades to something the ping eyes back in the day. I don’t as much care about the cost, as much is their potential for me to gain, or if I should just parlay the cost of clubs into more lessons (which I usually start in February and run through June)
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What is your SS with a 7 iron? Are you hurting for distance? moving to a 245 would be logical as its almost identical to what you have just more forgiving. You will just be giving up some feel and maybe a little stopping power.
 
ad_l1b said:
What is your SS with a 7 iron? Are you hurting for distance? moving to a 245 would be logical as its almost identical to what you have just more forgiving. You will just be giving up some feel and maybe a little stopping power.
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swing speed avg is about 85mph with a 7i. I ended up grabbing a set of 923 Hot Metal Pro's like them so far, might have a touch too much spin though. distance on the monitor is good. need to get them on the course
 
I might suggest before you say good bye to the 223s -- which I play in addition to playing Titleist 150s -- the 223 are pretty forgiving and superb clubs.. try some rental forgiving clubs and see if there is any difference. Rarely do I see an iron change make much difference in scores -- it is either getting off the Tee successfully or working the short game is what lowers scores around here. Your experiences may differ.

one guy in our club last year went for a full lesson set and for an all-new fitted club buy... his handicap went up.
 
Ajcoop20 said:
Thanks guys, has anyone seen a noticeable decrease in their handicap just by switching to a bit more forgiving iron, in the modern club era ? Obviously a lot of guys did when they went from their mcgregor and wilson blades to something the ping eyes back in the day. I don’t as much care about the cost, as much is their potential for me to gain, or if I should just parlay the cost of clubs into more lessons (which I usually start in February and run through June)
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The more forgiving irons will help but not transform your game. Short game will help more to reduce your handicap than the irons. The forgiving irons can help you avoid hazards short of greens and leave you in different / better locations after your approach shot but aren’t likely to materially improve you GIR’s, IMO.
 
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PuffChippy said:
So many factors. How do you define “noticeable”? What’s your miss? No club head alone will fix a chunk. If people could buy a game then handicaps would be far lower today versus 20 years ago but they’re not. Depending on which facts you choose to believe, handicaps have improved anywhere from 0 to 2 strokes over that past 20 years, and even if you decide to go high with 2 strokes that’s across drivers, irons, balls, putters, YT, all kinds of things. Everything I’ve experienced playing with many people over many years seems to support something closer to 0 but that’s just me. That said, none of that has ever stopped anyone (including me) from buying new irons and you should play what you enjoy playing.
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I could not agree more when it comes to new club purchases. Although there are exceptions I’m sure, I haven’t read a post on a new club/clubs where there has been a discernible difference in someone’s handicap as a result of an equipment purchase. Do they hit the ball better? Yes. Do they find more fairways or greens? Yes. Are they more pleased or enjoying the game more? Yes. Did their handicap go down 2 or more strokes? Not that I have read.
And as we all know this definitely doesn’t stop us from hoping as we continue to buy that sweet looking new……
Heel strikes, toe strikes, fat and/or thin, the club alone is not likely to make you strike the center of the face better. Lessons and practice with a focus on improvement can and potentially will result in an improvement in someone’s handicap. Of course, the choice of the HMP is a super iron. I love them. If hitting them strikes a positive chord in that you like them so much you start practicing more and maybe throw in a few lessons, you very well could see that 15 turn to 13 or lower.
Of course, just my opinion.
 
Slowmo said:
I saw a 2-3 point drop when I went from Ping eye2 to Mizuno MP20 MMC. I think the bigger point there was a better fit club than a 30 year old off the shelf club. During the time I played the pings I several times tried to switch to more forgiving clubs and somehow my game always got worse and led me to go back to the pings multiple times.
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I have the same issue, I sold my M1s and bought some Pings for forgiveness, I wish I hadn't. I sucked it up, because who wants to tell the wife they spent $1,300 dollars and don't want to use the clubs you just bought. Next year is irons year so I can actually go get fitted for some that work for me.
 
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