The Liv Golf Rumor and News Thread

Mulligan9111 · Aug 23, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
But you against the course isn't true for tournament golf. Its you vs your competitors. That's how you are judged. And the outside pressures of large crowds, playing against big names, playing for millions, playing to write your name in history books all influence outcomes.

The only thing any other golfer can do to beat you, is to shoot a lower score. They can't prevent you from shooting a lower score than them.

Phil75070 · Aug 23, 2022

Mulligan9111 said:
The only thing any other golfer can do to beat you, is to shoot a lower score. They can't prevent you from shooting a lower score than them.

It is always you against the course. It is he who does the best job of that is the one declared the winner.

NeverWiff · Aug 23, 2022

Mulligan9111 said:
The only thing any other golfer can do to beat you, is to shoot a lower score. They can't prevent you from shooting a lower score than them.

As a stand alone statement, this statement is correct. I would posit, however, that Golfer X (very Speed Racer-ish) teeing it up in the final pairing against Tiger feels FAR more pressure than if going up against a relative peer. Let's face it, at his best Tiger didn't have too many true peers. That pressure can, and often does, prevent optimal performance by Golfer X and result in a higher score than he might shoot otherwise. I think this is one we'll need to agree to disagree on. But certainly, your point is taken.

Mulligan9111 said:
My point is that player doesn't have any control over how you react to playing in the same group as them. It's still yourself against the course at the end of the day.

Point taken.

My point was that WHO you play does have indirect impact on one's performance, like it or not. It's one of those intangibles that exist in all of sports.

Nice 2 · Aug 23, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
I believe the 15 "new" events would simply be elevating the current events. Like Bay Hill and Memorial become some of the top tier events. The article stated that they would play in 3 other PGAT events outside the top tier. The top guys won't play in all 15, and will likely keep a similar number of events (around 20 or so). Obviously this is all just talk as nothing is set in stone. And it does seem some of the lower tiered played are worried about it. Mac Hughes said “How are you going to get anyone to watch the B-tour, then?” It’s great for the top 60 guys or whatever, sure, and I’d love to play in those. But is that the best for the Tour and its product? Probably not.”

I think it would be nice if the 15 or 18 new events included top 125 or even 144 players. Would make a lot more tour players and fans happy. Cinderella stories are good for sports and there are plenty of guys ranked between 60 and 200 that can compete. See Scott Stalling for most recent example, think he was ranked over 100 and almost got it done.

Just talk is right, and that has become a problem for the tour. IMO most all the things being talked about now, feel like a response to Liv. I am not convinced most any of it happens, if not for Liv. As stated in other thread, if things have truly been “in the works” for years, the tours ability to get things from conceptual to roll out is abysmal. That and the money are the sole reasons for the defections.

Mulligan9111 · Aug 23, 2022

NeverWiff said:
As a stand alone statement, this statement is correct. I would posit, however, that Golfer X (very Speed Racer-ish) teeing it up in the final pairing against Tiger feels FAR more pressure than if going up against a relative peer. Let's face it, at his best Tiger didn't have too many true peers. That pressure can, and often does, prevent optimal performance by Golfer X and result in a higher score than he might shoot otherwise. I think this is one we'll need to agree to disagree on. But certainly, your point is taken.

Point taken.

My point was that WHO you play does have indirect impact on one's performance, like it or not. It's one of those intangibles that exist in all of sports.

This whole discussion came about because of how to rank players in the OWGR. My argument is to go off of total tournament score versus a total "indexed score" for the course. If you are truly the number one golfer in the world, than it shouldn't matter who is teeing it up with you. You will be able to suck it up and play the course. The more rattled you get simply by who you are playing with, means you probably aren't one of the top golfer's in the world and would be then ranked accordingly by your scores. But at the end of the day, I believe you should only be ranked on how well you can play the course. I'll leave it be from here as I just keep going in circles with this part of the discussion.

Hacker67 · Aug 23, 2022

Pressure is subjective, some handle it better than others. This can't be a true measuring stick.

Birdieputt · Aug 23, 2022

Hacker67 said:
Pressure is subjective, some handle it better than others. This can't be a true measuring stick.

Pressure is a little easier to handle when you have 100 large already in your pocket.

Space Bandito · Aug 23, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
Am I missing something? Everything I have heard states the same 48 players will be playing in every LIV event next year. Norman has even said this I believe. So won't each LIV field be the exact same?

At the top of the rankings maybe, but with qualifying and relegation, the fields will not be identical.

jjjgolf500 · Aug 23, 2022

Space Bandito said:
At the top of the rankings maybe, but with qualifying and relegation, the fields will not be identical.

The qualifying and relegation is a year to year thing, not event to event. So the fields will be the for the entire 2023 season and then people get demoted/promoted for the 2024 season.

This is a good thing imo. Have to have the same team all year if you want the team thing to work.

alvinsmalvin · Aug 23, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
The qualifying and relegation is a year to year thing, not event to event. So the fields will be the for the entire 2023 season and then people get demoted/promoted for the 2024 season.

This is a good thing imo. Have to have the same team all year if you want the team thing to work.

I would agree with this, but expecting the same four players to be available for all events doesn't seem realistic and could become problematic (injuries, etc.). Eventually I could see teams of 6 or 8 and only a certain number of players are used by each team for each event.

One thing is for certain, so far nothing appears to be certain with LIV. Does anyone really think the LIV would not sign a top ten player mid-season?

jjjgolf500 · Aug 23, 2022

alvinsmalvin said:
One thing is for certain, so far nothing appears to be certain with LIV. Does anyone really think the LIV would not sign a top ten player mid-season?

norman saying he will honor the 48 that join to play next year is one thing I actually believe out of his mouth

.

Nice 2 · Aug 23, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
norman saying he will honor the 48 that join to play next year is one thing I actually believe out of his mouth .

But do we really even know how many are signed on a long term basis, or say an entire year?

We haven’t really seen the contracts. There could very well be guys who are signed short term, say on a per event basis. Would not surprise me one bit.

To answer Alvin’s question, heck no. If Liv could sign a top 50 or so guy, they will almost certainly do it.

jjjgolf500 · Aug 23, 2022

Nice 2 said:
But do we really even know how many are signed on a long term basis, or say an entire year?

We haven’t really seen the contracts. There could very well be guys who are signed short term, say on a per event basis. Would not surprise me one bit.

To answer Alvin’s question, heck no. If Liv could sign a top 50 or so guy, they will almost certainly do it.

Norman said 48. Also, The LIV lawyer said they are full at 48 for next year in the trial. Unless he was lying in court……

Nice 2 · Aug 24, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
Norman said 48. Also, The LIV lawyer said they are full at 48 for next year in the trial. Unless he was lying in court……

Yep, I do recall that now that you mention it, thanks.

Makes me wonder if Liv would relegate a player to Asian tour, or perhaps even terminate the contract of a little known guy to make room for bigger name guy.

alvinsmalvin · Aug 24, 2022

Nice 2 said:
Yep, I do recall that now that you mention it, thanks.

Makes me wonder if Liv would relegate a player to Asian tour, or perhaps even terminate the contract of a little known guy to make room for bigger name guy.

Make no mistake. LIV will make room for bigger name guys.

Also willing to bet LIV takes care of anyone who signed on in the very beginning.

Too many think it's absurd that the Saudi's would take care of the OG golfers. I'm guessing they are all satisfied with the arrangement.

alvinsmalvin · Aug 24, 2022

jjjgolf500 said:
Norman said 48. Also, The LIV lawyer said they are full at 48 for next year in the trial. Unless he was lying in court……

LOL and whoa, whoa, whoa...

Lying in court???? Kind sir, anyone can be misunderstood within the misrepresentation within the courtroom.

Sean · Aug 24, 2022

Birdieputt said:
Pressure is a little easier to handle when you have 100 large already in your pocket.

Lee Trevino was once asked about the pressure of playing in a US Open. He said that wasn't pressure. Pressure, he continued, is playing a round for $100 when you only have $5 in your pocket.

Greg Kulbick · Aug 24, 2022

Sean said:
Lee Trevino was once asked about the pressure of playing in a US Open. He said that wasn't pressure. Pressure, he continued, is playing a round for $100 when you only have $5 in your pocket.

I believe he said playing for five bucks when you only have two in your pocket.