Paderson KINETIXX Single Length Iron Shafts

[drrussellhogue]

I used these shafts in a project I just finished, converting the Edel SMS Pro irons to single length. The guys at Paderson said they have had great success with those shafts doing a 3 length approach: 3-5 38.5”, 6-9 38”, and P-LW 37.5”. So, if someone is thinking about “getting close” to single length, that could also be a viable option to reduce variables in their swing and have more clubhead options in doing so.

 

[edelguy]

I used these shafts in a project I just finished, converting the Edel SMS Pro irons to single length. The guys at Paderson said they have had great success with those shafts doing a 3 length approach: 3-5 38.5”, 6-9 38”, and P-LW 37.5”. So, if someone is thinking about “getting close” to single length, that could also be a viable option to reduce variables in their swing and have more clubhead options in doing so.

Been thinking about something like this as I currently play SLS-01 irons. Keep us posted on how these play as you get rounds under your belt with them. Curious, did you talk to Edel at all for this project?

 

[drrussellhogue]

Yes. I posted a new thread about my project. You can look at that for more details. I did talk to the guys at Edel.

They advised against doing it because unlike the SLS01’s these were not designed with being built for single length. I spoke with them to verify they could bend the clubs to the right lie angle, order heads with different weights than standard, and to talk through the best shafts for single length. They were the ones that told me they could get the Paderson Kinetixx ONE shafts.

Here’s the other thread. So we don’t hijack this thread: https://www.thehackersparadise.com/...erted-to-single-length.8956896/#post-11848910

 

[willplaysgolf]

Yes. I posted a new thread about my project. You can look at that for more details. I did talk to the guys at Edel.

They advised against doing it because unlike the SLS01’s these were not designed with being built for single length. I spoke with them to verify they could bend the clubs to the right lie angle, order heads with different weights than standard, and to talk through the best shafts for single length. They were the ones that told me they could get the Paderson Kinetixx ONE shafts.

Here’s the other thread. So we don’t hijack this thread: https://www.thehackersparadise.com/...erted-to-single-length.8956896/#post-11848910

How are you finding the different trajectory shafts to work for you compared to Cobra's shaft progression?

 

[JB]

How are you finding the different trajectory shafts to work for you compared to Cobra's shaft progression?

Cobra also changes the internal weight and placement of each head. Was just walked through this with the team there and it’s a stark difference from variable

 

[willplaysgolf]

Cobra also changes the internal weight and placement of each head. Was just walked through this with the team there and it’s a stark difference from variable

For sure. Since they have experience with lots of Cobra OL sets I was curious specifically about their experience with the discreet trajectory models that Kinetixx has vs. the tapered tipping that Cobra does

 

[drrussellhogue]

Yes. The Paderson One shafts are superior to the normal single length shafts Cobra uses. However, Cobra does offer the LA Golf shafts which are probably pretty similar? Originally, before switching to Edel, my plan was simply to order new Cobra clubs with the LA golf shafts, but they didn’t come out with a new players single length this year. That opened the door to doing some research and ended up buying the Edel SLS01 clubs with the Paderson shafts. I could tell immediately they were a better design.

I don’t mean this to come across as bashing Cobra. I have had every iteration of Cobra single length irons since the F7’s were released (F7, F8, F9, Forged Tec 2020, Forged Tec 2022). Further, if not for the fact I am getting older and starting to slow down, I wouldn’t have considered changing. But, I decided I needed to switch from the heavy extra stiff shafts to something a little easier going to maintain speed (was playing KBS 130 extra stiff).

In testing last night with the SMS Pro conversion, 95g stiff (playing 492g irons/515g wedges), The Paderson shafts have done the trick.

 

[drrussellhogue]

Cobra also changes the internal weight and placement of each head. Was just walked through this with the team there and it’s a stark difference from variable

Same. With he Edel SMS Pro, we can do the same thing and control where the weight is placed to match our own swing. With SLS01’s you have the ability to change the weight in the club head so that you can optimize the swingweight for your personal release. Edel and Paderson have both done a ton of work with the development of Cobra single length clubs.

I have seen Cobra improve miles over the year. Every generation got a little better so that by the time I got to the Forged Tec, the ball flight matched the trajectory you expected to see…compared to say F7’s where high lofted clubs were moon shots and low lofted clubs were rockets. Personally, I believe Cobra Forged tec 2020 version was better than the 2022 version, but that might just be personal.

Further, with Cobra, I had to do a lot of additional customization adjusting lofts and lie angles to optimize my flight. With the Edel SLS01’s it was just a matter of adjusting lofts through the set.

 

[JB]

Same. With he Edel SMS Pro, we can do the same thing and control where the weight is placed to match our own swing. With SLS01’s you have the ability to change the weight in the club head so that you can optimize the swingweight for your personal release. Edel and Paderson have both done a ton of work with the development of Cobra single length clubs.

I have seen Cobra improve miles over the year. Every generation got a little better so that by the time I got to the Forged Tec, the ball flight matched the trajectory you expected to see…compared to say F7’s where high lofted clubs were moon shots and low lofted clubs were rockets. Personally, I believe Cobra Forged tec 2020 version was better than the 2022 version, but that might just be personal.

Further, with Cobra, I had to do a lot of additional customization adjusting lofts and lie angles to optimize my flight. With the Edel SLS01’s it was just a matter of adjusting lofts through the set.

We know the Edel Irons well as we helped them launch both SMS and SMS Pro both on the website and our Quest Cup Experiences each year.
And yes you can change the amount of weight and where it is placed from a heel to toe placement. With that said, that is a bit different from the genesis of how Cobra goes about their change in weighting from one length to variable.

We have a few videos from the creator of the Cobra line and an iron head split open showing the gist of this.

I am not speaking to one philosophy being better, but rather they go about these things very different ways.
Obviously with us hosting The Morgan Cup with Cobra Golf and the Quest Cup with Edel Golf for THPers, they will get first hand access to R&D from both companies on this forum.

 

[drrussellhogue]

We know the Edel Irons well as we helped them launch both SMS and SMS Pro both on the website and our Quest Cup Experiences each year.
And yes you can change the amount of weight and where it is placed from a heel to toe placement. With that said, that is a bit different from the genesis of how Cobra goes about their change in weighting from one length to variable.

We have a few videos from the creator of the Cobra line and an iron head split open showing the gist of this.

I am not speaking to one philosophy being better, but rather they go about these things very different ways.
Obviously with us hosting The Morgan Cup with Cobra Golf and the Quest Cup with Edel Golf for THPers, they will get first hand access to R&D from both companies on this forum.

That makes sense. The SMS Pro irons are not designed to be single length. My point is that I made the conversion successful and that using SMS Pro irons with the Paderson shafts, my numbers on the launch monitor are better and more consistent. Given your view on the Cobra head design for single length, I guess that leads me to believe that the shafts are the real difference maker. I might pull the Paderson shafts from one of my Edel SLS01 sets and put them in the Forged tec heads then I could do an apples to apples comparison between: Edel SLS01 with Paderson shafts, Cobra forged tec with Paderson shafts, and SMS Pro with Paderson One shafts.

Not sure if I want to spend that kind of time, but it would be interesting.

 

[drrussellhogue]

Cobra also changes the internal weight and placement of each head. Was just walked through this with the team there and it’s a stark difference from variable

That only matters if a difference shows up in ball flight. it doesn’t for me. I will try and get on the launch monitor and post the ball flight data. There are a few things I am still working out on the Edel clubs. The biggest being I have them set at weaker lofts than my Cobra irons. I need a little time to see how gapping works out on the course so I can make adjustments.

The biggest difference I am seeing is in the low lofted clubs because my Edel clubs are about 1 club weaker lofts and the loft gaps with Edel are a bit closer than I had them set with Cobra. I had originally done this on purpose because I like 10 yard gaps and I was trying to squeeze in a 3i so I could get rid of a hybrid. Not sure if that’s going to work.

 

[drrussellhogue]

How are you finding the different trajectory shafts to work for you compared to Cobra's shaft progression?

It’s fine. It’s kind of hard to compare because the only shaft Cobra has that is similar is the LA Golf shaft and that’s not what I have. I am sure those would be pretty similar. Truthfully, with Cobra irons, I have seen the flight get much better over the years, in terms of my 3i launches and flies like you would expect to see a 3i and the same all the way down to wedges. After the F7’s, I have never really had a trajectory problem because of the design of the club. For me, the trajectory problem was tied to loft of the club and the dynamic impact conditions. Once I adjusted the Cobra Forged Tec loft and lie angles to make them right, I saw all of the right launch windows.

For sure I would attribute the better feeling on the Edel irons to the shaft. For Cobra, I was playing 130g KBS extra-stiff. I also have a set of Modus 120 extra-stiff. For Edel, I currently have 3 sets (85g stiff SLS01’s, 110g stiff SLS01’s, 95g stiff SMS Pro).

 

[willplaysgolf]

Found a couple of these on eBay and ordered the rest direct through Paderson. I like my Dart Vs but always wanted to try these and always good to have a winter project for my sanity. The ones I ordered from Paderson were 2 of the mid profile and 1 of the short profile. They made a mistake and didn’t actually have any of the short profile so they upgraded that one to the new One line which was nice of them. The sales rep mentioned that a lot of the Edel heads were popping up on the used market which he thought was driving an increased interest in these. Based on the specs and info from Paderson and Edel I’m expecting the 2 lines will play equivalent.

I went with 110g stiff models. I’m putting the long profile in Tec Utility OL 3 and 5 irons, mid profile in 7 and 8 FT OL, and short profile in 9 iron.

 

[willplaysgolf]

Got these put together and I enjoyed my first go on the sim with them. They seemed to reduce the difference in trajectory from club to club which is what I was hoping for, and the windows seemed really consistent. The different trajectory models somehow feel like they are doing their intended job while still feeling cohesive.

 

[drrussellhogue]

Got these put together and I enjoyed my first go on the sim with them. They seemed to reduce the difference in trajectory from club to club which is what I was hoping for, and the windows seemed really consistent. The different trajectory models somehow feel like they are doing their intended job while still feeling cohesive.

That’s great. I just switched launch monitors and made some changes to my sim setup so my club modifications have taken a back seat. I am about to jump back in and finish my tweaking. Right now, I am probably going to move lofts about 2 degrees weaker from 6-LW. 5i 1 degree stronger. 4i 2 degrees stronger.

Here are the distances I am working with. However, the club data on these shots wasn’t turned out because I didn’t use stickers. On my new launch monitor I won’t need stickers to get real club data.

I have to say, I love the shafts. They are great. When I look at actual club data, it’s worked out just like I hoped. I have gained speed without extra effort. That was exactly why I was moving to the softer graphite shafts.

 

[willplaysgolf]

That’s great. I just switched launch monitors and made some changes to my sim setup so my club modifications have taken a back seat. I am about to jump back in and finish my tweaking. Right now, I am probably going to move lofts about 2 degrees weaker from 6-LW. 5i 1 degree stronger. 4i 2 degrees stronger.

Here are the distances I am working with. However, the club data on these shots wasn’t turned out because I didn’t use stickers. On my new launch monitor I won’t need stickers to get real club data.

I have to say, I love the shafts. They are great. When I look at actual club data, it’s worked out just like I hoped. I have gained speed without extra effort. That was exactly why I was moving to the softer graphite shafts.

I'm about a club shorter than your numbers typically but seeing some similarities in the numbers. Not really any longer or shorter than previous but I've been in 95-110 graphite for a couple years now. Biggest thing is seeing the 9i in a lower window with the SIP shaft while feeling cohesive with the MIP and LIP shafts. The 3 utility with LIP doesn't go as high as I'd want for regular play but I'm planning to pack it for a Scotland trip next year. I have a PW head I'm pondering getting another SIP shaft for based on how the 9i is going, but not sure just yet.

 

[drrussellhogue]

I'm about a club shorter than your numbers typically but seeing some similarities in the numbers. Not really any longer or shorter than previous but I've been in 95-110 graphite for a couple years now. Biggest thing is seeing the 9i in a lower window with the SIP shaft while feeling cohesive with the MIP and LIP shafts. The 3 utility with LIP doesn't go as high as I'd want for regular play but I'm planning to pack it for a Scotland trip next year. I have a PW head I'm pondering getting another SIP shaft for based on how the 9i is going, but not sure just yet.

That session was swinging 3/4-full. That’s the easier swing that I will play as stock.

I will probably end up adjusting loft 2 degrees weaker from 6-LW, 1 degree weaker with 5i and 1-2 degrees stronger on the 4i. Right now, when I go after shots distances are too long. I was hitting some last night and going after a PW flying 165 is too much. I like to see my typical 3/4-full swing with PW carry at 140y with 150y being the full.

Truthfully, it all depends. I will have several sessions before I make more adjustments. I like to have my clubs setup so that a full swing with one iron is the same distance as a 3/4-half swing with the club above (Example full 9i = 8i 3/4-half). That way I always have a choice on shots based on ball flight I want to see. For that testing, I go through and do a session with 1/2, 3/4, full swings. I will map out the numbers and figure out exactly what adjustments I have to make.

The other thing is that I get really particular about spin rates. I want my spin rate to be club number x 1000 -1000 (7i=6000rpm spin). By getting spin rates correct, I see the flight windows I want. I can always change ball position to bring spin and flight up or down. Since I always play same ball position as stock, I build everything around my stock position.