Is it worth me getting fitted clubs if I don’t have a consistent swing?

[luckydutch]

I have two different pros that I alternate between when I visit my and my missus’ family and both are really pushing me to get an iron fitting. My clubs are definitely too short for me and they feel a fitting will help me improve faster.

My issue with this advice is that for me, a new set of irons is a big expenditure and I would want to feel like I’m making a long term investment. I have some serious issues in my swing (over the top, steep, slice) which mean I don’t have a really consistent swing. It changes constantly as I try to improve on these big weaknesses.

If I buy a fitted set of irons now, isn’t it possible that in as little as 6 months my swing might have improved quite a bit and the fitting is no longer right for me?

I would imagine shaft length would remain the same but lie angle, shaft stiffness etc. all might change? As might what clubs they recommend?

If it helps, I typically play to between 104 and 115. My chipping and putting is decent but my driver and irons are a horror show. I take about 4-6 penalty strokes per round at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JB]

Great info from @vgolfman here.

https://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/index.php?threads/most-important-aspect-of-fitting.8933119/page-3#post-10073092

 

[luckydutch]

Great info from @vgolfman here.

https://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/index.php?threads/most-important-aspect-of-fitting.8933119/page-3#post-10073092

Thanks for sharing that. It’s interesting because I am that bad golfer that’s over the top!

I guess my concern is not whether a fitting will benefit me now (it clearly will). It’s more, what happens if I get fitted now but in the next few months with hard work and continued lessons, I fix that over the top swing? I’m not suddenly going to become a great golfer but that one improvement would represent quite a big change to my swing path/speed etc. and thus potentially what my fitting should be?

Should I wait till I have resolved some of my critical issues?

My pros seem to think the clubs aren’t helping, though and I can see some logic in what they’re saying (them being to short is causing me to bend over more, messing up my spine angle and forcing me to spin more, coming more over the top)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtbloco]

Thanks for sharing that. It’s interesting because I am that bad golfer that’s over the top!

I guess my concern is not whether a fitting will benefit me now (it clearly will). It’s more, what happens if I get fitted now but in the next few months with hard work and continued lessons, I fix that over the top swing? I’m not suddenly going to become a great golfer but that one improvement would represent quite a big change to my swing path/speed etc. and thus potentially what my fitting should be?

Should I wait till I have resolved some of my critical issues?

My pros seem to think the clubs aren’t helping, though and I can see some logic in what they’re saying (them being to short is causing me to bend over more, messing up my spine angle and forcing me to spin more, coming more over the top)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getting clubs with proper Loft length and Lie are essential. That should be sorted whither you have a full fitting for iron and shaft or not.

if you can’t get access to a GCQuad for club data, a measuring tape, a lie board and a good pro will get you into a set that will make swing improvements possible.
With out that minimal fitting, then you are really hurting yourself and any chance to improve.

 

[BigMac]

Fixing an over the top move won’t have much effect on how your clubs fit or don’t fit you. The proper length won’t change, and it’s doubtful your swing speed will change enough to make a difference in your shaft flex unless you’re doing some kind of SuperSpeed training. If your lie angle needs adjusting that’s easy enough for a club fitter to do, and the vast majority of people are within 2 degrees of standard (flat or upright).

A good clubfitter with a launch monitor should be able to sort your crap swings from good swings and extract enough consistent data to ensure a good fit.

 

[V14_Heels]

I think the post JB linked is incredible for the reasoning why a bad golfer SHOULD get fitted, but overall I'm in the minority and still say no, an ultra high handicapper shouldn't. I think it's a waste of money to get a true "Club Champion" style fitting (that's not knock on club champion, there just kind of the big one out there). I had no idea what I was doing and was being offered some custom set of clubs that were just way too much money for my game at the time. I wasn't just bad...i really had no understanding of what a purely struck ball felt or sounded like, and to me that is the distinction that is needed.

But it also depends on how bad you really are, and if you plan to take lessons to change to get better. I got fitted for irons midway through lessons and I had not found a swing where I could actually get the trajectory and spin on an iron like it should. I'm talking I NEVER hit irons pure. I shot roughly 105-115, my best 7i would go 120 yards.

A few months later stuff started to click, and I finally understood what a pure iron should look and sound like, and it was just night and day from how I was swinging during my fitting, so it kind of felt like a waste of money at that point. I don't think one has to be even a remotely good golfer to get fitted, but I do think it's important that you've at least found some sort of consistency in your swing, and your able to purely strike a ball every now and then. That might be 1 out of 7 times, but you should still know what it feels like...

In my personal opinion...take the money that you would spend on custom clubs, and the fitting and find a good instructor. It doesn't have to be dozens of lessons. I had 3 lessons with the RIGHT guy and it clicked. I dropped from 105-115 down into the mid to low 90's within a couple months. I sound exactly like you. My short game was the only thing letting me breath, so my vote is no you shouldn't get fit yet...but...it's a very debatable topic.

 

[fuffle master]

I am a big proponent of getting fit. No, you are not going to go from a 104+ to a sub 90 golfer from a fitting. However, let’s say you do improve your swing and are hitting sub 95. The odds are the fitted clubs will still be the correct fitting for you at that level.

 

[hackitup]

I have two different pros that I alternate between when I visit my and my missus’ family and both are really pushing me to get an iron fitting. My clubs are definitely too short for me and they feel a fitting will help me improve faster.

Two professionals have given you the same opinion. That’s enough for me. As far as rate of improvement affecting your fit, it’s possible your fitting would change. It’s unlikely to change very quickly, though. Think years as opposed to months. Unless you’re already on the cusp between shafts they’ll probably be fine.

A fit for length as a bare minimum should be done, in my opinion. Depending on how much length needs to be added, you may be able to get an extension installed in your 7i so you can take your lessons with a proper length club and figure out if a fit makes sense to you. I normally shy away from extensions, but sometimes you have to see it with your own eyes before committing.

 

[vgolfman]

Thanks for sharing that. It’s interesting because I am that bad golfer that’s over the top!

I guess my concern is not whether a fitting will benefit me now (it clearly will). It’s more, what happens if I get fitted now but in the next few months with hard work and continued lessons, I fix that over the top swing? I’m not suddenly going to become a great golfer but that one improvement would represent quite a big change to my swing path/speed etc. and thus potentially what my fitting should be?

Should I wait till I have resolved some of my critical issues?

My pros seem to think the clubs aren’t helping, though and I can see some logic in what they’re saying (them being to short is causing me to bend over more, messing up my spine angle and forcing me to spin more, coming more over the top)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Get fit first/soon/now. Be sure to tell your fitter during the prefit interview about you taking lessons and your goals to improve. Getting the right head/shaft/length/specs for speed/launch/spin are only going to help the improvement process and your clubs will still be good if/when you do improve. You may want to not go full draw bias options if you are going to put the work in and a lie angle change may be needed when that happens, but you will still be good to go with those new sticks for some time.

 

[wazzubrew]

I've gotten two fittings now and left frustrated both times - mostly at myself. Nerves, inconsistencies, and mindset are to blame. I wish I would have hit the range before but fittings are a lot of swings as is and it's tough to try to fix your swing during one.

Noticeably, my mindset swinging the club is different in an indoor bay where you're just looking at numbers hitting off a mat, can't witness ball flight, in front of a stranger, and aren't hitting to a distance/flag. Really messed me up. It was obvious my numbers were better with certain clubs because I would have 1-2 good hits with a club and there was no rhyme or reason to which clubs those were (despite the fitters trying to tell me that the good hits were because of the club... they weren't). Miss hits were shorter than my good hits by 70 yards and the fitters were talking about how forgiveness will help that . My misses were not my typical misses and I felt like I left with recommendations that wouldn't work for my actual swing. I was hoping for mercy and they'd tell me to come back another time after noting my feedback and frustration, but instead had to struggle through another hour of bad swings. This was coming off shooting two of my best rounds as well (83 and 90).

I'm certainly open to doing it again but I have not learned much after spending $200 and 2.5 hours. Maybe next year. Not saying this will happen to you, and I noticed considerable difference in feel and distance with new clubs so I know I'm leaving performance on the table. But the numbers did not correlate to my actual swing, there were no trends between different types of shafts or heads, and and the two fitters for different companies were trying to sell me the clubs anyways.

 

[Hitsnmisses]

Had a fit and purchase clubs ( irons ) at the end of last year. My previous irons were , not fitted and l could tell having had them for approx 10 y , the wear pattern on sole . This showed me they were wearing on the heel and gradually reducing to toe. Upon the purchase and fit , measuring has the clubs fit for swing , the wear pattern is now, parallel across set .lve chosen a set that more middle to more lofted clubs (6i and above ) Not a fan of long irons , ( played when younger , prefer fairway and hybrid ) … The opportunities to tailor your clubs , be it grip , shaft ( the most important bit) and all the adjustments , and the best iron solution and make up for the way you play golf ( that’s is physical and mentally )

You may not make quantum leaps forward but it’s the opportunity to improve with a set that’s more characteristically built for you . That will get the best out of what you do , not handicap you trying to find something with a set that’s not ideal for you.

 

[luckydutch]

I think the post JB linked is incredible for the reasoning why a bad golfer SHOULD get fitted, but overall I'm in the minority and still say no, an ultra high handicapper shouldn't. I think it's a waste of money to get a true "Club Champion" style fitting (that's not knock on club champion, there just kind of the big one out there). I had no idea what I was doing and was being offered some custom set of clubs that were just way too much money for my game at the time. I wasn't just bad...i really had no understanding of what a purely struck ball felt or sounded like, and to me that is the distinction that is needed.

But it also depends on how bad you really are, and if you plan to take lessons to change to get better. I got fitted for irons midway through lessons and I had not found a swing where I could actually get the trajectory and spin on an iron like it should. I'm talking I NEVER hit irons pure. I shot roughly 105-115, my best 7i would go 120 yards.

A few months later stuff started to click, and I finally understood what a pure iron should look and sound like, and it was just night and day from how I was swinging during my fitting, so it kind of felt like a waste of money at that point. I don't think one has to be even a remotely good golfer to get fitted, but I do think it's important that you've at least found some sort of consistency in your swing, and your able to purely strike a ball every now and then. That might be 1 out of 7 times, but you should still know what it feels like...

In my personal opinion...take the money that you would spend on custom clubs, and the fitting and find a good instructor. It doesn't have to be dozens of lessons. I had 3 lessons with the RIGHT guy and it clicked. I dropped from 105-115 down into the mid to low 90's within a couple months. I sound exactly like you. My short game was the only thing letting me breath, so my vote is no you shouldn't get fit yet...but...it's a very debatable topic.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

I’m quite lucky in that both my local range and PXG are offering me free fittings and I’m only looking at irons in the 600-700 range so I’m not talking about thousands on custom clubs. Just improvement irons with custom options in length/lie/shaft/grip.

That being said, I’m not sure they’ll offer me a free fitting twice in a year so I’m keen to do it when it will offer me the most value.

In terms of how bad I am, that’s hard to answer. I do know what a pure iron strike feels like as I have carried a 7 iron 150 before with a feeling of good compression but I’ve really lost that recently. This over the top swing is an absolute killer! Causes me to early extend, tilt my wrists down to the ball then ‘scoop’ in the follow-through. Flight shape is a fade/slice too which costs distance. In recent weeks I’ve been down to a 130-140 carry on the 7 iron.

I’ve got 1 range session and a lesson before the fitting I booked so I highly doubt I’m suddenly going to completely cure it in that time.

 

[luckydutch]

Two professionals have given you the same opinion. That’s enough for me. As far as rate of improvement affecting your fit, it’s possible your fitting would change. It’s unlikely to change very quickly, though. Think years as opposed to months. Unless you’re already on the cusp between shafts they’ll probably be fine.

A fit for length as a bare minimum should be done, in my opinion. Depending on how much length needs to be added, you may be able to get an extension installed in your 7i so you can take your lessons with a proper length club and figure out if a fit makes sense to you. I normally shy away from extensions, but sometimes you have to see it with your own eyes before committing.

Yeah, that’s exactly why I booked the fitting. I was initially hesitant but when both told me the same thing, I had to listen.

I’m only looking at mid-price improvement irons (ping g425s, for example) but even so, they’re a big purchase for me. One that I can’t afford to be doing every (or even every other) year.

It is possible for me to do the fitting and buy some second hand irons that are at least the correct length but a lot of the decent condition used irons are in the 400-500 price range and the brand-new improvement irons are only 600-700. Hardly feels worth getting used. Unless I go really old where you can pick up a pair for £200 but they’re ancient (like my current 20 year old irons).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HarlettoScara]

I'm a complete advocate for getting fitted, and relatively often. To be honest I'm just going to be echoing everybody else in here, but the fitting is not just to sell you clubs but to find the best clubs that will work for you now, and as you progress - tell your fitter you're having lessons and looking to improve. You'll be able to get an idea of the shaft flex, lie, length, grip thickness and all those things that can make a huge difference. Plus, the confidence that comes from playing a set of clubs set up exactly for your swing is huge - go for it!

 

[joninocelda]

I have two different pros that I alternate between when I visit my and my missus’ family and both are really pushing me to get an iron fitting. My clubs are definitely too short for me and they feel a fitting will help me improve faster.

My issue with this advice is that for me, a new set of irons is a big expenditure and I would want to feel like I’m making a long term investment. I have some serious issues in my swing (over the top, steep, slice) which mean I don’t have a really consistent swing. It changes constantly as I try to improve on these big weaknesses.

If I buy a fitted set of irons now, isn’t it possible that in as little as 6 months my swing might have improved quite a bit and the fitting is no longer right for me?

I would imagine shaft length would remain the same but lie angle, shaft stiffness etc. all might change? As might what clubs they recommend?

If it helps, I typically play to between 104 and 115. My chipping and putting is decent but my driver and irons are a horror show. I take about 4-6 penalty strokes per round at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anytime an activity requires the usage of tools or equipment it is always good practice to use the right tools for the job. Golf is no different. When ever possible properly fitted equipment will always make your job of hitting solid shots easier. Proper length, flex, grip size, head type, lie angles and Swing weight all make up a properly fitted club set. Although this is true technique in my opinion accounts for 85% of the equation. As far as your over the top and slice. That could be permanently fixed in one range session.

 

[luckydutch]

I'm a complete advocate for getting fitted, and relatively often. To be honest I'm just going to be echoing everybody else in here, but the fitting is not just to sell you clubs but to find the best clubs that will work for you now, and as you progress - tell your fitter you're having lessons and looking to improve. You'll be able to get an idea of the shaft flex, lie, length, grip thickness and all those things that can make a huge difference. Plus, the confidence that comes from playing a set of clubs set up exactly for your swing is huge - go for it!

Grip thickness might be an underrated thing. All my clubs are normal size grips but one. My 7 wood has a mid-size grip and I absolutely love the way it feels in my hand. Feels way more comfortable to take a nice neutral grip without squeezing the life out of it.

 

[Nick20UK]

I'd definitely get fit.

A decent pro will have you eliminating the majority of that over the top swing path within a couple of lessons (maybe even one) as long as you work on it on the range.

 

[Desmond]

With a fitter putting you in a proper posture, you should be able to use that proper length and proper grip size that will help you make a better swing.

You can adjust lie angle but most people with the proper swing and standard height and arm length are standard or +1 to +2 degrees, and maybe standard to -1 flat in the highest loft in wedges. The fitter will set you up and irons are adjustable for lie although Pings that are not forged need a lot of strength to traditionally adjust them. I've sent mine back to Ping for adjustment and re-shafting previously. But a club fitter can adjust them. I've both had a fitter adjust and also sent them to Ping.

You might get the iron that in general will fit you with lessons depending on your objectives. I started out with a lot of offset and bigger headed Pings to less offset, smaller head, more compact yet forgiving heads. So the question may be do you want a club head that fits you now or one that will fit you after a year or two of lessons - it won't be a big adjustment in general. You'll still play forgiving heads. As they say, play the most forgiving irons you can stand to look at - or that you like their look but still fit your game. The Ping 425 is an iron that will probably stand the test of time and keep up with you.

I don't know your age but graphite in a shaft is a consideration if you are 45+ years of age. Graphite is now very consistent and diverse and will have less stress and vibrations for your shoulders, arms, and elbows over a period of time. As to flex, you'd probably want to get fit into a shaft that will work for you as you pick up some speed. Let's say your speed is more a lighter flex but with lessons the pro will have you swinging a regular flex, although flex is more than speed, it's also tempo and release. Let the fitter do his thing based on your objectives.

Good luck.

 

[Knot Right]

My son and I have been going back and forth about club fitting for a couple of weeks. He used to dabble with golf as a teen using some of my extra club sets but never really caught the fever. Well, this year he's taken up the game again with a passion and plays 2-3 times week. He also reads and watches everything related to equipment and the swing. I keep a "hands off" approach when he asks me about new equipment and his swing, but I did do a basic measurement for him after he kept asking. I did a real basic measurement using his height, wrist to floor, and grip size and he fits right into standard club specs. His swing speed and transition from the top puts him right into a (S) flex category and his ball flight pretty much confirms my suggestions to him.

The only real advice that I do give him constantly is to go see a teaching pro and take in at least 3-4 leesons before making any changes to his equipment, especially given the fact that he currently has a very inconsistent swing. I fear that he's already falling into the marketing trap that I see a lot of players get sucked into. He had a driver fitting this week on impulse, and ended up dropping $550.00 on a TM Sim with (S) Ventus blue shaft that he doesn't hit any better than the 5 year old Bertha that I gave him.

After we played this past Friday, he said that he should have listened. All I could say to him was that he just bought a awesome driver ...........and that a good teaching pro could show him how to handle it properly.

So anyways, I just set the money aside for his early early Christmas present for 4 lessons with LPGA teacher here in town. All he has to do is schedule the dates.

Out of curiosity on my part.........I want to know is how any honest club fitter can watch a player make 30-40 noticeably inconsistent/different swings and come away thinking he's helped that player at all by selling him a new driver. I asked if the fitter made any adjustments to his wing, and he said no.

 

[luckydutch]

With a fitter putting you in a proper posture, you should be able to use that proper length and proper grip size that will help you make a better swing.

You can adjust lie angle but most people with the proper swing and standard height and arm length are standard or +1 to +2 degrees, and maybe standard to -1 flat in the highest loft in wedges. The fitter will set you up and irons are adjustable for lie although Pings that are not forged need a lot of strength to traditionally adjust them. I've sent mine back to Ping for adjustment and re-shafting previously. But a club fitter can adjust them. I've both had a fitter adjust and also sent them to Ping.

You might get the iron that in general will fit you with lessons depending on your objectives. I started out with a lot of offset and bigger headed Pings to less offset, smaller head, more compact yet forgiving heads. So the question may be do you want a club head that fits you now or one that will fit you after a year or two of lessons - it won't be a big adjustment in general. You'll still play forgiving heads. As they say, play the most forgiving irons you can stand to look at - or that you like their look but still fit your game. The Ping 425 is an iron that will probably stand the test of time and keep up with you.

I don't know your age but graphite in a shaft is a consideration if you are 45+ years of age. Graphite is now very consistent and diverse and will have less stress and vibrations for your shoulders, arms, and elbows over a period of time. As to flex, you'd probably want to get fit into a shaft that will work for you as you pick up some speed. Let's say your speed is more a lighter flex but with lessons the pro will have you swinging a regular flex, although flex is more than speed, it's also tempo and release. Let the fitter do his thing based on your objectives.

Good luck.

Interesting perspective, thank you.

I did a few swings off a lie board with a correct-length ping when I was last in the pro shop and that said I was +2 degrees. How much of that is down to my swing path vs my natural bio mechanics, I don't know. Interestingly, if you measure my wrist to floor and compare to the ping size chart, for my height it puts me slap bang in the middle of green which is +2 degrees. So perhaps I am just +2 and it's nothing to do with my swing?

As for whether I would chose heads for now or for when I'm a bit better, I definitely like to buy for the future. I'm looking at irons aimed for 20 handicappers with a view to being that handicap within 6-12 months. I feel that's achievable as I work hard at it, take lessons and it's mostly just my core swing holding me back. My putting and chipping is easily good enough to play bogey golf. I got up-and-down 6 times in the last round I played.

As for shaft. I'm early thirties and pretty athletic so I would probably expect to be fit for regular or stiff shafts. I'm consciously trying to ease-off the power while I work on this over-the-top swing but even so, on clean strikes my 7i ball speed is usually in the 110-118 mark. That's about average, I think? Would hope to incorporate more power as I improve and no longer have to hold-back quite so much.

 

[Desmond]

Interesting perspective, thank you.

I did a few swings off a lie board with a correct-length ping when I was last in the pro shop and that said I was +2 degrees. How much of that is down to my swing path vs my natural bio mechanics, I don't know. Interestingly, if you measure my wrist to floor and compare to the ping size chart, for my height it puts me slap bang in the middle of green which is +2 degrees. So perhaps I am just +2 and it's nothing to do with my swing?

As for whether I would chose heads for now or for when I'm a bit better, I definitely like to buy for the future. I'm looking at irons aimed for 20 handicappers with a view to being that handicap within 6-12 months. I feel that's achievable as I work hard at it, take lessons and it's mostly just my core swing holding me back. My putting and chipping is easily good enough to play bogey golf. I got up-and-down 6 times in the last round I played.

As for shaft. I'm early thirties and pretty athletic so I would probably expect to be fit for regular or stiff shafts. I'm consciously trying to ease-off the power while I work on this over-the-top swing but even so, on clean strikes my 7i ball speed is usually in the 110-118 mark. That's about average, I think? Would hope to incorporate more power as I improve and no longer have to hold-back quite so much.

Over the top is pretty easy to cure with the right instructor - wouldn't worry too much about it. Relax more, Get a proper backswing and stay connected while generating speed with the arms/hands without the hands screwing you up, and the body supporting that speed. Loose arms and shoulders, relaxed grip will help.

 

[luckydutch]

Over the top is pretty easy to cure with the right instructor - wouldn't worry too much about it. Relax more, Get a proper backswing and stay connected while generating speed with the arms/hands without the hands screwing you up, and the body supporting that speed. Loose arms and shoulders, relaxed grip will help.

Hopefully! I think it stems from a) me being too tense and gripping/swinging too hard and b) I tend to swing my arms at the ball and let them get out in front of me as my body rotates. Been trying to consciously keep my hands back behind me as I rotate as a swing thought. Mixed results. Sometimes works well and I hit a nice draw. Sometimes works too well and I draw too much! Sometimes because I'm thinking about the arms, either my hips don't rotate enough or my arms go to fast and I hit behind the ball.

Got 2 practice sessions and a lesson before my fitting so perhaps I will make some progress by then.

 

[Desmond]

Hopefully! I think it stems from a) me being too tense and gripping/swinging too hard and b) I tend to swing my arms at the ball and let them get out in front of me as my body rotates. Been trying to consciously keep my hands back behind me as I rotate as a swing thought. Mixed results. Sometimes works well and I hit a nice draw. Sometimes works too well and I draw too much! Sometimes because I'm thinking about the arms, either my hips don't rotate enough or my arms go to fast and I hit behind the ball.

Got 2 practice sessions and a lesson before my fitting so perhaps I will make some progress by then.

Someone that won't hurt you is Mike Malaska - search him on YouTube - look for the last 3 yrs on your topic.

 

[CTRosarian]

How are you going to learn to play golf if you can blame your problems on clubs that don't fit?

Golf is as much as what happens between the ears as learning the motor control to swing a golf club.

I had a rough round in which I lost five balls in five holes and barely managed to play out the last four holes with my remaining golf ball.
Then I took a wrong turn on the way home and had an adventure through the Connecticut maze in busy traffic.
Guess what? I took a bunch of practice swings with my driver when I got home and really crushed the ball! Stroke after stroke!

Maybe you can find a used 7 iron that is a better fit without having to spend a lot of money on a custom club?
I got back into golf by going to a shop that sold used clubs and picked out a 7 iron that felt good.
I bought a ladies flex Big Bertha OS. Based on my age and height I correctly guess my swing speed.

I've been buying used clubs and adjusting them as needed.
I have a chop saw to shorten them, an air compressor to change grips, and lead tape to add swing weight.

 

[Acesteve]

you need an iron that is in the neighborhood of where you need to be. Static fitting charts available from Ping and other brands online can help you with lenght and lie. you can get a sense or your swing speed from online info as well. compare what you learn to what you have.

I have three situations in my saturday moring group where we went into a fitter with an end in mind (longer clubs) and all of us came out with longer clubs. blame the fitter or blame the buyer or both. Two of us have improved our swing and gone back to stanardish lenght clubs. One of my playing partners does not want to change and I'm certain his irons are holding him back but he does not want to buy another set of irons.