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Interesting Handicap Conversation

jdtox said:
Said person is working hard on his/her game but only plays formats? Is all the work on the game indoors? Never plays normal rounds?
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Winter time. Lots of indoor work. Comes out of winter and plays 5-6 events in a row, all with formats.
Got two rounds in and posted both rounds.

What should they do?
 
JB said:
This all stems from a conversation with Matt, the head pro at Ballyhack.
The plus handicap golfer was a good friend of ours.
The other one, I will keep the name out of it, but while its not common, it does happen.
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I think the discussion about how a handicap travels is also something that needs to be considered.

Are the 20 established on tight fairways and undulating greens, only to play on wide open fairways and flat greens?

Ballyhack is an interesting case study because that's where some putters go to die haha - My last day there, I hit to the wrong side of at least seven holes and felt like I was lag putting rather than putting with opportunity. You can't bake that reality into a handicap, especially not for a single round.
 
jdtox said:
Showing up with a vanity cap and playing worse is a way of life
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What defines a vanity cap? Speaking personally out side of anything THP, I play exactly zero rounds competitively for anything. Not a member at a club, so a low cap doesn’t do anything..
 
Templet0n said:
But is it? I think the whole handicap thing is BS..
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I think equitable conditions and tee boxes are reasonable for traveling with it.

As soon as the distances change, or the style of golf changes, or even the grass changes, it's a crapshoot. Take a guy who has played their entire life on bent to bermuda, and their handicap goes out the window big fast.
 
JB said:
Here is another scenario of the same ilk.
golfer is a plus handicap according to the handicap system, but every round is shamble or scramble, and hasn’t broken 80 in a year. Should they be punished?
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I think they need to re-evaluate the type of golf they are playing. Especially if they are playing in competitive events. Just my opinion. And that goes for either type of golfer.
 
JB said:
Winter time. Lots of indoor work. Comes out of winter and plays 5-6 events in a row, all with formats.
Got two rounds in and posted both rounds.

What should they do?
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Guess they roll with what they got until more rounds can be posted. If it were me and I was improving that drastically I would want to know where it had moved to so I would be sure to play and post more rounds.
 
Mmaynard11 said:
I think they need to re-evaluate the type of golf they are playing. Especially if they are playing in competitive events. Just my opinion. And that goes for either type of golfer.
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Why?
SHould someone not play in THP Events or Charity events if given the opportunity? Should they not work on their game in the winter since they can't play?
 
Canadan said:
If it were up to me, every score posted for handicap would have a six month expiry date on it.
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Can we make that a year to allow for the off season? I think a year is current enough to have a realistic view. 6 months could have a lot of rusty scores leading to more sandbagger talk with the higher spring scores.

JB said:
Okay @Canadan here this scenario is this was part of the conversation.
Friend is a +1.3
Has not played a qualified round for handicap in close to 9 months. Continues to play in formats.
Shows up at member guest last week and gets trounced. Why? Because he isnt that good anymore.

That shouldnt be right either.
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Unfortunately that's designed into the system as well. He has a valid handicap that doesn't match his skill level. The answer to both is to play more rounds but the reality of life doesn't always make that a realistic option.
 
jdtox said:
Guess they roll with what they got until more rounds can be posted. If it were me and I was improving that drastically I would want to know where it had moved to so I would be sure to play and post more rounds.
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And if that isnt an option for them?
Lets take you for instance. Lets say you work all winter one. year on your swing with an instructor and practice daily. You show up at a tournament and are a 6 handicap. Yet you go low for 4 straight rounds. Real low.

Are you sandbagging becuase you didnt seek out a chance to post or didnt have time or money to travel to do so?
 
Canadan said:
I think equitable conditions and tee boxes are reasonable for traveling with it.

As soon as the distances change, or the style of golf changes, or even the grass changes, it's a crapshoot. Take a guy who has played their entire life on bent to bermuda, and their handicap goes out the window big fast.
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Yeah. Bermuda has me confuddled from tee to green lol!!
 
AuzzieMatt said:
I post mine anyway. I play as a single and get paired up so it's not strictly a solo round, but my partners aren't checking my score either.

My score is my score, good or bad.
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Same. In fact, I'm the idiot who is more likely to lower my handicap because my vanity won't allow me to actually card a 9 (I use max net double). Which is another thing that's confusing about the WHS. They actually recommend that scoring, but how does someone legimately card a Snowman on some holes using those guidelines? Maddening...
 
JB said:
And if that isnt an option for them?
Lets take you for instance. Lets say you work all winter one. year on your swing with an instructor and practice daily. You show up at a tournament and are a 6 handicap. Yet you go low for 4 straight rounds. Real low.

Are you sandbagging becuase you didnt seek out a chance to post or didnt have time or money to travel to do so?
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I'd say thats taking advantage of a system. If you know you have improved you know.
 
No, they are not sandbagging and effort put toward improvement should be rewarded.
 
jdtox said:
Said person is working hard on his/her game but only plays formats? Is all the work on the game indoors? Never plays normal rounds?
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this is where I am stuck on as well.
 
That's a great example of how the handicap system works. It's a snapshot of you on your best day, which is why it takes your 8 best rounds.
If he starts posting low rounds, they are counting towards his handicap and knocking off higher rounds from being used.
It takes time for the handicap system to accurately show a person's game, but as long as people are being honest it will all catch up.
 
As a person in that handicap range, I think it's possible to get on a heater and shoot a pretty good score. I've gone on runs of five or six holes where I'm under par, before I usually have a blow up. Just a couple months ago I had a 41 on the back 9, with a triple and a double. It's not unreasonable to think you could get go on a pretty good run if you're striking it well, or sink a few putts. If they showed up to an event and shot multiple rounds in the 70s, I'd be skeptical.
 
As sims get more prevalent, i can see a lot of golfers improving significantly during the off season and their handicap taking awhile to catch up.
 
Canadan said:
I think the discussion about how a handicap travels is also something that needs to be considered.

Are the 20 established on tight fairways and undulating greens, only to play on wide open fairways and flat greens?

Ballyhack is an interesting case study because that's where some putters go to die haha - My last day there, I hit to the wrong side of at least seven holes and felt like I was lag putting rather than putting with opportunity. You can't bake that reality into a handicap, especially not for a single round.
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I'm enjoying reading this thread and following the discussion. Clearly this isn't a black or white answer. On balance I'd say not sandbagging.

Another thing to throw into the mix is the affect that a caddie at a THP Experience could have on the scoring especially on the greens (which is why I quoted @Canadan 's post.). If you don't have regular or any access to a caddie when recording your previous rounds, and then have one walking the course with you, reading greens and guiding you that could easily make a positive impact on your scores....
 
Canadan said:
I think the discussion about how a handicap travels is also something that needs to be considered.

Are the 20 established on tight fairways and undulating greens, only to play on wide open fairways and flat greens?

Ballyhack is an interesting case study because that's where some putters go to die haha - My last day there, I hit to the wrong side of at least seven holes and felt like I was lag putting rather than putting with opportunity. You can't bake that reality into a handicap, especially not for a single round.
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The second paragraph is a conundrum that I face all the time when I play "away from home". My fairways are TIGHT. To add, the slope rating at my course doesn't seem to reflect that. I go to courses in Phoenix or Tucson and I feel like I'm hitting down a runway as opposed to a hallway off the tee box.

I'll go to tougher rated courses and shoot the same score as I do on my home course. 🤷‍♂️
 
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