Does not having perfect form actually HELP some shots?

[CBaker]

This is a random ramble while watching the tournament this week...and I know I probably lost you already but hear me out if you're willing to read this....

How many times are you watching golf and the pros are having a hard time controlling spin? I feel like I see a lot of shots where it's difficult for pros, because they can't turn off the attack angle and good form like a switch, and the shots they play have tons of spin with wedges. Amateurs don't tend to have that much spin...at all...and I feel like at times some of those mid range wedge shots might actually be easier that way?

So, is the ability to have JUST enough spin to hold, but never spin back, potentially helpful in some cases? Not saying we're pulling the shot off better than a pro could, but in some cases I just feel like it may actually be helpful.

Or, is it that pros CAN control it, but they just play with the mindset where more spin is always helpful?

 

[MtlJeff]

It's funny because i don't think you're wrong here, in the specific case of wedge control. It's less a thing with the new grooves, but a few years back, watching pros spin back balls off greens was a regular occurrence. It does still happen. I can only imagine when they are on 10-11 stimp greens.

I'm a very low spin player. Put me on an 11 stimp green and the ball will just stop where it lands. I'd much rather that yeah

 

[CTRosarian]

I don't think they have time to practice spin control.
There is too much to be gained by hitting it farther down the fairway and take advantage of the course conditions.
The ball rolls a long way down a beautifully maintained tour fairway.
They also need to work on precise distance control to deal with tiered greens that punish you if you miss by just a little.

My game is geared toward playing short courses with tiny greens.
You adapt to what you have to play.

 

[WLG1952]

I watched a lot of the Masters on Saturday. I saw a lot of approach shots hit the green, bounce, and roll off.

I thought this was due to the greens being raised, and the previous two days of wind simply making the greens firmer. That, or the lies the pros had were not spin friendly. Combination of the two?

Sunday, I don't recall too many balls bouncing off the greens. I did notice what appeared to be higher trajectories on the approach shots.

I'm playing with older grooves on my wedges. I'm also not much of a divot taker, preferring to sweep the ball clen off the turf. This tends to give me higher trajectories, where the ball falls at a steeper angle,, and sort of drops, and stops, with minimal roll out. This is why I spend some time knowing my carry yardages.

I know spin can be a good thing for most golfers, especially those with text book impact positions. However for me, I never thought much about how much back spin I put on the ball, as I never learned that swing technique.

 

[CTRosarian]

Pros need to be able to play in all weather conditions. Being able to play on a windy day may mean making the cut and getting a paycheck. Or not.
They do this by being able to hit low shots that stay on the green. A high fade is a terrible option for playing in the wind.

 

[CTRosarian]

Taylor Swift's boyfriend must be super impressed with her ability to sing and play the piano in a sold out Foxboro stadium in the rain!
Football players play in bad weather but their opponents share in the misery.
It is another level of entertainer that can perform in the rain for fans who delight in the shared experience of the moment!

Big bucks $$$ for being able to do that and not have to send everyone home and do it again at another time.

 

[MWard]

This is a random ramble while watching the tournament this week...and I know I probably lost you already but hear me out if you're willing to read this....

How many times are you watching golf and the pros are having a hard time controlling spin? I feel like I see a lot of shots where it's difficult for pros, because they can't turn off the attack angle and good form like a switch, and the shots they play have tons of spin with wedges. Amateurs don't tend to have that much spin...at all...and I feel like at times some of those mid range wedge shots might actually be easier that way?

So, is the ability to have JUST enough spin to hold, but never spin back, potentially helpful in some cases? Not saying we're pulling the shot off better than a pro could, but in some cases I just feel like it may actually be helpful.

Or, is it that pros CAN control it, but they just play with the mindset where more spin is always helpful?

I think it comes down to some players having lack of practice or lack of skill. The latter sounds ridiculous, but how many times do you hear from older players that the young kids don’t know how to hit certain shots?

 

[Slot708]

Keep In mind that the tour pros have perfect conditions, and their wedges are basically right off the shelf for each event. I think Phil Mickelson is the only few players that had wedges he used for decades. But I’m sure his grooves were regrounded all the time.

Where most amateurs barely even clean their clubs or grooves. Have old beat up equipment. And play rock hard golf balls and course conditions are no where near tour sites. So their chances of spinning it are slim to none. Best for them to think of all shots around the greens as bump and run. And just plan rollout even if lobbing the ball

So when people say “tour pros are that good” . I agree somewhat.. but their equipment and course conditions now a days have huge benefit as well

Like to see them use weekend warrior’s wedges for a round and see how they do

 

[Parrot]

I think with most amateurs, a well-struck shot is going to do what you described. Spin just enough to hold or stop quickly. For them, it's probably the best they can do that results in that shot.

 

[razaar]

Golf is a perverse game. What applies in the long game doesn't necessarily apply in the short game. Spin in the long game is created by shaft lean at impact with the hands leading the clubhead through impact. It is spin that keeps the ball in the air. The same applies in the short game with spin generation but the ball is not in the air for very long so it lands with lots of spin when the hands lead the clubhead through impact. Pros shed spin by releasing the clubhead early during the downswing in order to control the amount of backspin.
Slope and grain also are a factor in a ball zipping back.

 

[rollin]

Golf is a perverse game. What applies in the long game doesn't necessarily apply in the short game. Spin in the long game is created by shaft lean at impact with the hands leading the clubhead through impact. It is spin that keeps the ball in the air. The same applies in the short game with spin generation but the ball is not in the air for very long so it lands with lots of spin when the hands lead the clubhead through impact. Pros shed spin by releasing the clubhead early during the downswing in order to control the amount of backspin.
Slope and grain also are a factor in a ball zipping back.

Not sure if I agree (or perhaps misunderstanding) about hands leading being what creates spin.... but spin in my understanding is about clubhead speed first and foremost within a glancing blow. of course all the factors of the swing (including hands position and release) are involved in creating head speed but If what your implying is the AOA created by leading hands and shaft, its also delofting and delofting is actually by default less glancing and less spin , not more. No?
One could technically lead with hands and not release therefore obtaining less speed and of course little spin. Always interesting/fun imo to dissect/discuss.

 

[Architex]

A lot of the spin you see on TV is due to slope that you cannot see due to TV being 2D. Hitting into a slope I can spin it back pretty good and I am nowhere near a tour player. And Augusta being what it is, some of those greens have A LOT of slope.


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[razaar]

Not sure if I agree (or perhaps misunderstanding) about hands leading being what creates spin.... but spin in my understanding is about clubhead speed first and foremost within a glancing blow. of course all the factors of the swing (including hands position and release) are involved in creating head speed but If what your implying is the AOA created by leading hands and shaft, its also delofting and delofting is actually by default less glancing and less spin , not more. No?
One could technically lead with hands and not release therefore obtaining less speed and of course little spin. Always interesting/fun imo to dissect/discuss.

You don't have to agree with me on this - a flip release vs hold off release - which creates the more backspin. My money is on the hold off release.

 

[rollin]

You don't have to agree with me on this - a flip release vs hold off release - which creates the more backspin. My money is on the hold off release.

well, in a stored energy sense the hold can help create a higher speed upon release. So i suppose we are saying similar.

 

[razaar]

well, in a stored energy sense the hold can help create a higher speed upon release. So i suppose we are saying similar.

The low spinner from 40 yards in that tour pros play and amateurs struggle with is a good example of a hold off release with a slightly open clubface through impact. Mastering this type of release with the shorter shots is a real challenge. At least it was for me.

 

[1860VS]

A lot of the spin you see on TV is due to slope that you cannot see due to TV being 2D. Hitting into a slope I can spin it back pretty good and I am nowhere near a tour player. And Augusta being what it is, some of those greens have A LOT of slope.


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And a LOT of the spin you see is because they hit their wedges so hard, with clean contact. Other than moving the ball to and fro a ball width or less, there isnt much change in attack angle, in the interest of consistency. Moving the ball back more than one ball width is just asking for a chunked shot. Face manipulation and more importantly the loft of the club used are the best, most consistent means of spin control. Less loft means less clubhead speed to carry the same distance. Less loft and/or less speed = less spin.

 

[PatsFan]

No, I would think a imperfect swing will lead to imperfect contact and will result in some good and some bad.

 

[CTRosarian]

A lonely exective course or Par 3 can be a great way to experiment with spinning the ball onto the green.
You can see the difference between hitting the ball from the fairway and rough.
I see a big difference between the rough on TV versus the rough on YouTube.
The Pros get a bigger benefit to keeping it in the fairway than someone playing on a cheap "goat track."

 

[CBaker]

No, I would think an imperfect swing will lead to imperfect contact and will result in some good and some bad.

I’m not really talking bad golf though. Good golf shots with just not as much attack angle, aka less spin but still good directional control. Does that change your opinion on it?