Developing a "Fairway Finder"

[MGoBlue]

Does the burner require a higher swing speed to hit it off the deck like a 3w? I mean, that might be a better option - work on better contact with my 4w or carry a mini-driver???

I’m probably low 90s with a driver, right about 90 with the BRNR. Mind I don’t hit the BRNR great off the deck but I can get serviceable shots out of it. I also carry a 4 wood set to 17.25 and may be lofting it up to 18 this year. That would make it more like a 5 wood.

 

[JonMA1]

About a month ago I had an ah-ha moment while doing my golf workout; my hands were becoming separated during the backswing meaning the pressure of my right (trail) thumb pad on top of my left thumb was coming loose. When this happens, the left arm bends and the right arm takes over. the result is exactly what you write- very little tolerence differences create really bad shots.

I actually thought about keeping the hands connected while on the simulator yesterday afternoon. I hit a lot of fairways and dispersion was very tight. Of course, my simulator golf is always much, much better than hitting off turf. Lol.

I want to try to use this thought the next time I practice outdoors. I also want to use an alignment stick or even a tee a few feet in front of my ball on the target line when practicing.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I’m probably low 90s with a driver, right about 90 with the BRNR. Mind I don’t hit the BRNR great off the deck but I can get serviceable shots out of it. I also carry a 4 wood set to 17.25 and may be lofting it up to 18 this year. That would make it more like a 5 wood.

The way I look at it, even if I hit a worm burner with a 4w it'll probably get more distance than if I were to flush an iron. As long as it's fairly straight and not completely topped, I'm going to get a serviceable result.

 

[jfrigo1003]

Just saw a post of a PXG mini driver with 4 moveable weights. That is all ive ever wanted from the TM mini drivers. It will 100% be in my bag

13* , heavy weight toe side. Money

 

[Paddy1Putt]

My best advice is to take your driver (or whatever your tee club is going to be) and exclusively practice it at the range. Get a small and take your time, deliberate practice and continue to exclusively hit that club. When I am going through stretches of discipline and do that my driver (in this case) is the best club in my bag.

The fact remains I only have so much time due to my life structure. As much as I want to chip and putt, and even knock in approaches I really only have time to hone the driver.
Speaking of which I am going to hit the range with only my driver..... Today

 

[Paddy1Putt]

@JonMA1

Just a follow up. I think most people underestimate how much time it takes to get good and something AND maintain that something..... If you only have (let's say 3 hours a week) that's probably just enough to work on one part of your game, unless you are exceptional in your routine and discipline.

From years of playing one thing is for certain. If you can't get off the tee box effectively the game is absolutely horrible. So therefore..... Spend your 3 hours wisely and groove that tee club!

JMO

 

[JonMA1]

@JonMA1

Just a follow up. I think most people underestimate how much time it takes to get good and something AND maintain that something..... If you only have (let's say 3 hours a week) that's probably just enough to work on one part of your game, unless you are exceptional in your routine and discipline.

From years of playing one thing is for certain. If you can't get off the tee box effectively the game is absolutely horrible. So therefore..... Spend your 3 hours wisely and groove that tee club!

JMO

The opinion I've always felt was the most logical was a ratio of practice time. It went something like...

Full swing (includes driver and irons) 65%
Short game 25%, and
Putting 10%.

I have to practice every skill a lot or I'll lose it quickly. I agree with your opinion on the driver being important. I need to shift a bit more practice time to it. But if I neglect the full swings with irons/hybrids and/or the short game, a better driver game would be negated. I rarely practice putting unless I have time before the round.

Come spring, I will put in a minimum of 10 hrs weekly towards outside practice and can do so because I have access to a field behind my property and a range nearby.

 

[GavinwithaR1]

I think you are over-thinking this.

43% fairway with Driver ain't too bad. With your distance P-avg at 231 we need to be hitting driver.

With regards to penalties where do these come from? Do you have any examples?

Is it topped into water in front of you or leaked into the hazard right of the fairway?

 

[JonMA1]

With regards to penalties where do these come from? Do you have any examples?

First, thank you @GavinwithaR1. I'm a big fan of how detailed you and @jenisontheforum dive into the numbers to provide the feedback you do.

2-way misses left and right. Will occasionally top with the driver but not nearly as often. Besides the penalties, there seem to be an excess of punch outs with the tree-lined courses I play (I haven't gone through to get a count of positional shots). I don't mind being in the rough so the 43% isn't a stat I'm too worried about. More concerned with minimizing the width of the misses.

43% fairway with Driver ain't too bad. With your distance P-avg at 231 we need to be hitting driver.

Also need to be hitting driver because I'm even less accurate with 4w and 3h... without the distance.

 

[GavinwithaR1]

First, thank you @GavinwithaR1. I'm a big fan of how detailed you and @jenisontheforum dive into the numbers to provide the feedback you do.

2-way misses left and right. Will occasionally top with the driver but not nearly as often. Besides the penalties, there seem to be an excess of punch outs with the tree-lined courses I play (I haven't gone through to get a count of positional shots). I don't mind being in the rough so the 43% isn't a stat I'm too worried about. More concerned with minimizing the width of the misses.

View attachment 9243857

Also need to be hitting driver because I'm even less accurate with 4w and 3h... without the distance.

So are the courses that you play on typically have trouble on both sides on the same hole?

 

[JonMA1]

So are the courses that you play on typically have trouble on both sides on the same hole?

Yes. For the two course I play most often, that's common.

 

[Parrot]

Having read through the thread, the thing that jumps out to me is that you're trying to fix a whole bunch things at one time and it appears that you're doing it without a trained eye to sort out what the actual cause(s) of the problem(s) might be. Getting a couple of lessons would be my first step.

 

[JonMA1]

Having read through the thread, the thing that jumps out to me is that you're trying to fix a whole bunch things at one time and it appears that you're doing it without a trained eye to sort out what the actual cause(s) of the problem(s) might be. Getting a couple of lessons would be my first step.

Thanks for the suggestion, but if lessons were the solution, I'd take them every year and consider it money well-spent. I've taken several lessons and lesson packages over the years. Of the 7 or 8 I've had I really liked my last instructor the best. But he told me my swing was not holding me back from playing the level of golf I'm looking to play. He never had the chance to give an on-course playing lesson so all he really had to go by was what he saw at the range.

As far as trying to fix a whole bunch of things, I'm only trying to reduce left and right dispersion... that's it.

As far as how I go about working on a problem, yes, I do a lot of trial and error and nothing visual beyond ball flight. Not the orthodox way of learning, I know. But after spending years trying to improve through lessons, static positions, mirror work, video, the Five "S" of great practice... and failing miserably, nothing I do moving forward is going to work any less than those more conventional methods.

Improving accuracy off the tee is just going to take hard work and a lot of time.

 

[Parrot]

Thanks for the suggestion, but if lessons were the solution, I'd take them every year and consider it money well-spent. I've taken several lessons and lesson packages over the years. Of the 7 or 8 I've had I really liked my last instructor the best. But he told me my swing was not holding me back from playing the level of golf I'm looking to play. He never had the chance to give an on-course playing lesson so all he really had to go by was what he saw at the range.

As far as trying to fix a whole bunch of things, I'm only trying to reduce left and right dispersion... that's it.

As far as how I go about working on a problem, yes, I do a lot of trial and error and nothing visual beyond ball flight. Not the orthodox way of learning, I know. But after spending years trying to improve through lessons, static positions, mirror work, video, the Five "S" of great practice... and failing miserably, nothing I do moving forward is going to work any less than those more conventional methods.

Improving accuracy off the tee is just going to take hard work and a lot of time.

Good luck.

 

[stryper]

Personally, finding a one way miss makes for a full time fairway finder. By the end of last year, I had a driver that I could aim down the left, and cut it back right to the middle. My miss with that was the left rough. The only issue I had was that I didn't make consistent contact, so had a lot of short drives. I then switched to a short driver, and have struggled again with a two way miss. But I make better contact, and hit more longer drivers. I'm going to try a lower lofted head and see if I can get the one way miss back.

My home course has two holes where even a one way miss is still dead. Constantly find myself steering the ball on those holes to no good end. Would love to have a legitimate fairway finder to keep the big numbers off the card. Probably going to explore more FW or hybrid options as the weather opens up this spring.

What really drives me crazy though is that everywhere else on the course the driver is my best .

 

[CTRosarian]

My home course has two holes where even a one way miss is still dead. Constantly find myself steering the ball on those holes to no good end. Would love to have a legitimate fairway finder to keep the big numbers off the card. Probably going to explore more FW or hybrid options as the weather opens up this spring.

What really drives me crazy though is that everywhere else on the course the driver is my best .

My club for that is a 22* 4 iron.

 

[stryper]

My club for that is a 22* 4 iron.

19* hybrid was one i experimented most with last year with some success. Then I got streer-y with that and started missing again.

I’m a head case there.

 

[ger21]

My club for that is a 22* 4 iron.

Played a course today for the first time down in FL today, and the 9th hole was about 320, waste area down the right, water down the left. Decided to play it safe with my 22.5° 4 iron, that I had just hit to 7 feet on a 200 yard par3 the previous hole.
First shot, pushed right into the waste area.
Re-tee, and hit a slight pull draw, one hop off the cart path into the water. Dropped from there, hit it fat, and it plugs and disappears into the swampy bermuda rough. 3 swings, 3 lost balls

 

[stryper]

Played a course today for the first time down in FL today, and the 9th hole was about 320, waste area down the right, water down the left. Decided to play it safe with my 22.5° 4 iron, that I had just hit to 7 feet on a 200 yard par3 the previous hole.
First shot, pushed right into the waste area.
Re-tee, and hit a slight pull draw, one hop off the cart path into the water. Dropped from there, hit it fat, and it plugs and disappears into the swampy bermuda rough. 3 swings, 3 lost balls

There’s almost nothing more frustrating for me in golf than trying to make the smart play then f*cking that up.

 

[JonMA1]

Had a pretty good practice today.

There wasn't that feeling of awkwardness with my lower body doing one thing while my upper body did another. The results were very good starting lines on all but one swing and after the first couple slices, I was able to hit slight fades. I was really happy with the higher launch angle today as well.

I did struggle with finding the center of the face and lost a little distance overall, but distance is the least of my worries right now. While I didn't measure anything on a LM today, I'm consistently above 3,000 rpm. But once again, that's something to worry about after/if left and right dispersion improves.

 

[davidsong]

I stand slightly closer with slightly closed stance choke down two inches n try to hit down while really squeezing hard on my pinky on the lead hand

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

Right there with you buddy. I need to improve my fairway percentage big time with the driver. I hit it pretty far but it doesn't help me much if I'm behind sh*t hiting punch shots. Currently sitting at an average fairways hit of only 36% (15% below a 5-cap) but my P-avg distance is about 20-25 yards longer than the average 5-cap. So in order to capitalize on that advantage I need to put it in play more often.

 

[JonMA1]

Right there with you buddy. I need to improve my fairway percentage big time with the driver. I hit it pretty far but it doesn't help me much if I'm behind sh*t hiting punch shots. Currently sitting at an average fairways hit of only 36% (15% below a 5-cap) but my P-avg distance is about 20-25 yards longer than the average 5-cap. So in order to capitalize on that advantage I need to put it in play more often.

With that 36% of fairways hit, how often are you getting penalties with the driver?

I probably could have titled the thread a little differently. I'm ok with the 43% of fairways hit, just not ok with how wide the other 57% are going. There are courses that I cannot play without a really good day with the driver. It has to do with where the choke points are on many of the holes.Those are the holes that I need to learn how to really tighten up dispersion. In addition to the penalties, there are often the numerous punch-outs that are required. I need to develop more open shots to the green for at least a chance to score low.

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

With that 36% of fairways hit, how often are you getting penalties with the driver?

I probably could have titled the thread a little differently. I'm ok with the 43% of fairways hit, just not ok with how wide the other 57% are going. There are courses that I cannot play without a really good day with the driver. It has to do with where the choke points are on many of the holes.Those are the holes that I need to learn how to really tighten up dispersion. In addition to the penalties, there are often the numerous punch-outs that are required. I need to develop more open shots to the green for at least a chance to score low.

Penalties are fairly low, fortunately - last 15 rounds only 2 penalties and 3 bunkers off the tee. My bigger issue is as you say on the punch outs. BUT I don't play courses that eat balls regularly. My typical course is very much a 2nd shot golf course - tee shots in most places have a lot of room but the 2nd shot demands more precision, which a lack of precision off the tee makes even harder. There are other courses around here that if I played them more regularly, the penalties number would be substantially higher if I hit a lot of drivers.

Yeah 43% of fairways isn't too bad for ya. I 100% agree on tightening up those misses so that they're at least not actively dumping strokes on you. Easier said than done but isn't everything??

 

[JonMA1]

Did a fair amount of outside work this weekend and had some encouraging results. I used both my old driver and my new one. Both were performing well though I was fighting slices with the newer, lighter shaft - not to mention a fairly stiff wind quartering against me. I took a few swings with my old driver and was really happy with the starting line, ball flight and lack of damaging axis spin. Went out again later in the day with the new driver and was able to get back to a slightly in-to-out path and better club face control.

Here are some 2023 metrics I'm using as benchmarks.

Penalties
Driver: 15%
Any substantial reduction will indicate the work I put forth was worth it. Hoping to get it down to 10% or lower.

Distance
Performance average: 231, actual average: 206
I don't care about improving my performance average... it's BS anyway. But I do want to close the gap between the two. Less duffs should equate to a better game off the tee.

I can tell already that I won't be as long off the tee this year and that's ok. I just want to reduce the damaging misses.

Fairways in regulation
At 43%, I'm not terribly worried about bumping that number up. Still, it would be another indication that I'm tightening up dispersion. Also, despite what may be the opposite for the majority of the golfing population, my approach success in 2023 was a lot better from the fairway than the rough. Proximity to the pin on approach shots from 100-150 was closer from the fairway than approach shots within 50-100 from the rough. So my numbers indicate being in the fairway has some value. Still, as long as I'm getting decent lies and not constantly faced with trouble shots, it's not a big deal. (My approach game has to improve, but that's another topic.)

Of course, none of these numbers matter if it doesn't result in better scores and differentials. That'll be the stat that counts the most.

 

[Sean]

There’s almost nothing more frustrating for me in golf than trying to make the smart play then f*cking that up.

One time I was on a shortish par 4 and took out the driver. My playing partner asked why I didn't make the "safe" play off the tee. I said I can F up a 7-wood (or any club for that matter) as much as I can the driver so why not hit driver?