GolfLivesMatter
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So I guess the people who feed their kids by running a salon, gyms, bars are effed. Wow. What a major stride by those who are still being paid.
Corona Virus/COVID19: Local Impact
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So I guess the people who feed their kids by running a salon, gyms, bars are effed. Wow. What a major stride by those who are still being paid.
This looks to be really well thought out
There were some 80,000 deaths from the flu in 2018. That's WITH a supposed "flu vaccine". The flu has been around since dirt and nobody has ever stopped it. Any belief in the media fairy tale that C19 can be eradicated is flat-out wrong.
Next, doctors are being forced to blame C19 on about every death, or those that died WITH C19, not from C19. Flu / pneumonia deaths have miraculously dropped off because they're counting C19 for everything. I could jump off a 30 story building and splat, but if I have any C19 in my system I'd be a C19 death. What's that tell you? Plumping the numbers for scare tactics? And oh by the way, Cuomo etal are now caught-up in an S-storm because they sent C19 patients BACK to nursing homes. What's up with that? Some sort of sacrifice? The Navy ship was there and nobody used it. Conspiracy? Or some whacko plan?
Cuomo doubles down on ordering nursing homes to admit coronavirus patients
Gov. Cuomo doubled down Sunday on the state’s controversial directive ordering nursing homes to admit COVID-19 patients. The governor — who himself has described nursing homes as a “feeding frenzy’…nypost.com
54,000 deaths is hardly a reason to destroy 30M jobs. Herd immunity is the only way out, and yes, people are going to die of C19 now and in the future
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Also, what's your thoughts on forced mask wearing to play golf? Would you comply if required?
Okay - you are misusing my post and trying to start a fight.
You've taken it out of context for your own objectives.
Not taking the bait. Really disappointed you chose to do this - twisting posts.
Bye.
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Thats a fair point and is something Ive also thought about but here is why I found what I feel is the counter point to it.
There is likely "some" of this which has skewed things a tad. But that would been only in the beginning.
You see.....This virus situation rose so fast (especially in large cities (namely NYC) and it really began to fill up hospitals and even overrun many in the area quickly. That didnt happen over months,...but it did happen over only a couple or so weeks. So it was very quick where the powers that be were not admitting folks into hospitals unless they were very sick. They actually sent very many sick people home. In fact also within a short period of time we couldn't even visit our general practitioners unless symptoms were more serious. So with that.......most folks (within a fairly short time of this pandemic coming to the area) were not being admitted unless they were in very bad shape. You had to be (and still now) have to own fairly severe symptoms to even visit your doctor or an emergency room.
Also....there were (and still are) folks dying at home. A good percentage of folks have passed away without even having severe symptoms or only after a couple days or so of more severe symptoms. Many these folks were told to stay home by their doctors unless things get much worse and many others were sent home from emergency rooms and told to come back if things were to get much worse. But instead they unfortunately passed even before the symptoms got much worse. This is something that happened to my cousin. As well as others I know of.
Bottom line is that the hospitals wasnt flooded with so many many patients who otherwise would not have been hospitalized and in fact I would argue once this thing let loose on us that there may have been many more folks who should have or normally would have been hospitalized under normal circumstances.
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https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1271456/download
Finally... It’s about time.
“The current national crisis related to COVID-19 has required the imposition of extraordinary restrictions on all of our daily lives. Millions of Americans across the nation have been ordered to stay in their homes, leaving only for essential and necessary reasons, while countless businesses and other gathering places have been ordered to close their doors indefinitely. These kinds of restrictions have been necessary in order to stop the spread of a deadly disease but there is no denying that they have imposed tremendous burdens on the daily lives of all Americans.
In prior Memoranda, I directed our prosecutors to prioritize cases against those seeking to illicitly profit from the pandemic, either by hoarding scarce medical resources to sell them for extortionate prices, or by defrauding people who are already in dire circumstances due to the severe problems the pandemic has caused. We have pursued those efforts vigorously and will continue to do so. Now, I am directing each of our United States Attorneys to also be on the lookout for state and local directives that could be violating the constitutional rights and civil liberties of individual citizens.
As the Department of Justice explained recently in guidance to states and localities taking steps to battle the pandemic, even in times of emergency, when reasonable and temporary restrictions are placed on rights, the First Amendment and federal statutory law prohibit discrimination against religious institutions and religious believers. The legal restrictions on state and local authority are not limited to discrimination against religious institutions and religious believers. For example, the Constitution also forbids, in certain circumstances, discrimination against disfavored speech and undue interference with the national economy. If a state or local ordinance crosses the line from an appropriate exercise of authority to stop the spread of COVID- 19 into an overbearing infringement of constitutional and statutory protections, the Department of Justice may have an obligation to address that overreach in federal court.
I am therefore directing the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, Eric Dreiband, and Matthew Schneider; the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, to oversee and coordinate our efforts to monitor state and local policies and, if necessary, take action to correct them. They should work not only with all Department of Justice offices and other federal agencies, but with state and local officials as well.
Many policies that would be unthinkable in regular times have become commonplace in recent weeks, and we do not want to unduly interfere with the important efforts of state and local officials to protect the public. But the Constitution is not suspended in times of crisis. We must therefore be vigilant to ensure its protections are preserved, at the same time that the public is protected.” - Attorney General Barr
Finally... It’s about time.
“The current national crisis related to COVID-19 has required the imposition of extraordinary restrictions on all of our daily lives. Millions of Americans across the nation have been ordered to stay in their homes, leaving only for essential and necessary reasons, while countless businesses and other gathering places have been ordered to close their doors indefinitely. These kinds of restrictions have been necessary in order to stop the spread of a deadly disease but there is no denying that they have imposed tremendous burdens on the daily lives of all Americans.
In prior Memoranda, I directed our prosecutors to prioritize cases against those seeking to illicitly profit from the pandemic, either by hoarding scarce medical resources to sell them for extortionate prices, or by defrauding people who are already in dire circumstances due to the severe problems the pandemic has caused. We have pursued those efforts vigorously and will continue to do so. Now, I am directing each of our United States Attorneys to also be on the lookout for state and local directives that could be violating the constitutional rights and civil liberties of individual citizens.
As the Department of Justice explained recently in guidance to states and localities taking steps to battle the pandemic, even in times of emergency, when reasonable and temporary restrictions are placed on rights, the First Amendment and federal statutory law prohibit discrimination against religious institutions and religious believers. The legal restrictions on state and local authority are not limited to discrimination against religious institutions and religious believers. For example, the Constitution also forbids, in certain circumstances, discrimination against disfavored speech and undue interference with the national economy. If a state or local ordinance crosses the line from an appropriate exercise of authority to stop the spread of COVID- 19 into an overbearing infringement of constitutional and statutory protections, the Department of Justice may have an obligation to address that overreach in federal court.
I am therefore directing the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, Eric Dreiband, and Matthew Schneider; the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, to oversee and coordinate our efforts to monitor state and local policies and, if necessary, take action to correct them. They should work not only with all Department of Justice offices and other federal agencies, but with state and local officials as well.
Many policies that would be unthinkable in regular times have become commonplace in recent weeks, and we do not want to unduly interfere with the important efforts of state and local officials to protect the public. But the Constitution is not suspended in times of crisis. We must therefore be vigilant to ensure its protections are preserved, at the same time that the public is protected.” - Attorney General Barr
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Not trying to start a fight but your emphasis was probably what he keyed in on. Your first quoted post above claimed that COVID was MUCH MORE (your emphasis) contagious than the flu. I don't think the data yet supports that conclusion. I'm not going to quote death rates (as they change daily and are highly suspect to world-wide reporting) but here is the transmission rate as documented from Johns Hopkins at the following link: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
I don't see that COVID-19 is MUCH MORE contagious than the flu from those figures. Again, not trying to pick on you personally just trying to level-set the dialog. I'd be interested in your source to review the data from another perspective if you would care to share it.
arydolphin
GTHC!
So you left AMA in your case. And now you think that hospitals are admitting people that don’t really need to be admitted?
Why even go to a doctor when you clearly don’t trust the medical system?
arydolphin
GTHC!
This isn’t just because of COVID. This has been a trend for years, especially in rural areas. The medical centers lose too much money and then they close. Like other poorly performing businesses, COVID will accelerate their demise.
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Respectfully, there's a metric ton of spin in those numbers wherever you saw them, and from a few different angles too. Someone was probably just having fun running through extremes on their scientific calculator
Nope- already explained that I'm for reasonable reopening.
People are going to make mistakes in setting these guiidelines - choose the wrong options when confronted with an unknown danger. They were trying to protect people from a new virus that was more highly contagious and could overwhelm the hospital systems. Everyone - federal and states - made and continue to make mistakes.
At the same time, the authorities need to re-evaluate conditions as they change - the Feds have guidelines. It's a confusing situation. Stores should have remained open with at least curbside service, precautiions taken to reasonably protect. Governors need to adapt instead of sitting on their hands. Things have evolved where we are going to herd immuniity and keep those with underlying conditions quarantined.
I helped keep my clients open as a necessary business. I looked at many of these Orders from all over the Country and thought it was a bit much. But it takes time for people to adapt - more time than it should.
Respectfully, there's a metric ton of spin in those numbers wherever you saw them, and from a few different angles too. Someone was probably just having fun running through extremes on their scientific calculator
Did the flu with a vaccine and no social distancing give us 54000 deaths in one month?
More data. CDC flu estimates from Oct 1 - April 4 for the US only
Flu illnesses: 39-56 million cases
Flu doctor visits: 18-26 million
Flu hospitalizations: 410,000-740,000
Flu deaths: 24,000-62,000
Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates
CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.
www.cdc.gov
I can't really find fault with what Katz is suggesting. I've been trying to keep an open mind but before this interview there hadn't been any information out there that seemed credible or convincing.
For the record, I don't fault the government in reacting the way they did - even those I didn't vote for. First, it was and still remains unfamiliar territory. Second, in retrospect shutting things down now seems like the correct action in order to keep the hospitals from being over-burdened. I also don't think Fauci's predictions were as off-base as others believe. It's not that hard to imagine there will be many more deaths before a vaccine is discovered.
But.... I'm starting to come around to what many here have been posting for a while. There needs to be a cautious re-opening of the country because there doesn't seem to be much in the way of an alternative plan.
Dr. Katz's reference to the tragedy of a fatal car accident kind of struck home. You know, 38,000 lives could be spared every year if we simply disallowed motor vehicle travel.
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Someone said that on the news earlier. Social distancing limits the amount of deaths in a lot of different ways, including motor vehicles.
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More data. CDC flu estimates from Oct 1 - April 4 for the US only
Flu illnesses: 39-56 million cases
Flu doctor visits: 18-26 million
Flu hospitalizations: 410,000-740,000
Flu deaths: 24,000-62,000
Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates
CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.
Since some deaths (according to both Fauci and Birx last week) are being reported as covid and are just as likely flu or something else, I wonder if we ever get real numbers.
I’d like to think so, and am holding out for that.
arydolphin
GTHC!
There was a stat I saw earlier today that Miami has gone 7 weeks without a homicide for the first time since 1957.
With respect to balance: the response to this was always going to have to try to thread a needle between the economic hardships and medical hardships. Naturally, people are going to disagree with whichever part of that plan they don’t agree with. Also, people are going to be shaped mainly by their personal experiences and less likely to consider the welfare of others before themselves. That is where all of the disagreements in this thread come from, IMO.
It would be nice if we felt like a united effort was being made to fight this thing. But when people object to something as innocuous as “we are all in this together” then that ship has sailed.
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My doctor says I should lose weight and eat better so it wasn't the first time. And of course hospitals admit sick people that don't require hospitalization, it happens every single day. Not even sure who would argue that? The fact that I don't blindly follow all the wonderful, expert advice I get daily about a variety of things doesn't mean I don't value, respect and appreciate that advice, and in that particular case we both knew I wasn't going to die, I would just get better a lot faster if I stayed and let them do their thing. To me I'd rather stay sick with flu an extra few days then spend the night in any hospital, I don't care how great their food is.
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Im not sure partially aligning with the tens of millions that are out of work could be viewed as “less likely to consider the welfare of others before themselves”.
Especially when most that seem to align closer to that side are the first to say welfare of others matter and if people are uneasy should continue to isolate.
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Ah, now that’s a completely different assertion with qualifiers I’m not sure I fully understand but flu killed 195,000 people in the US during the month of October in 1918. Adjusting for population growth that would roughly be the equivalent to killing over 600,000 in a single month today.
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And are we absolutely sure this has only been here a month and have been causing deaths for just a month?
I don’t understand this. How are total amounts of cases for a disease that has existed for a century compared to the total amount for a disease that has existed for less than 6 months a measure of how contagious a disease is? I mean, the flu has been around in every region of the world and had a chance to propagate for decades. While Covid has been branching out world-wide since, what, 2 months? Feels like an unreliable comparison.
Coronaviruses aren't new.
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While I’m not huge on comparisons I think the main reason it pops up is twofold. First because it’s a virus that kills thousands every year.
Second, while it kills thousands every year, despite vaccine, the economy doesn’t shut down over it.
I want to add these are not my feelings, although I understand it. Finally, coronaviris isn’t really new.
The data set was explicitly pointing out CV19.
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