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Cleveland Black Driver - Everything You Wanted to Know

SuperStroke
JB said:
For all the talk of the driver being too long, if someone feels that way, why not have it cut down?

I mean I guess I would say this about every single driver on the market right now since most are getting towards these lengths or passed them.
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Well, I did have a shorter (44 3/4" installed) shaft in the Cobra S2 and it works great. I'd be concerned about cutting down the shaft in a ultra-light and long configuration because I'm not a club maker and have no idea what that would do to the balance, swing weight, feel, etc. The Cleveland direction seems so carefully engineered as a system that I'd be worried about ruining something and then being out the $$$. It's funny that when you hear the OEM reps talking about these designs, it's always about more ball speed, head forgiveness, etc. and there isn't much discussion of whether it is more difficult to bring the club square as you get longer. I know that if you have an OTP swing then the physics should make it harder to square the face the longer the club and there is no doubt that OTP is a major swing flaw in the target market. I'm no expert but I just wonder...
 
He talked a little bit about getting the face square by changing the weighting of the head, I believe.
 
jmaier said:
Well, I did have a shorter (44 3/4" installed) shaft in the Cobra S2 and it works great. I'd be concerned about cutting down the shaft in a ultra-light and long configuration because I'm not a club maker and have no idea what that would do to the balance, swing weight, feel, etc. The Cleveland direction seems so carefully engineered as a system that I'd be worried about ruining something and then being out the $$$. It's funny that when you hear the OEM reps talking about these designs, it's always about more ball speed, head forgiveness, etc. and there isn't much discussion of whether it is more difficult to bring the club square as you get longer. I know that if you have an OTP swing then the physics should make it harder to square the face the longer the club and there is no doubt that OTP is a major swing flaw in the target market. I'm no expert but I just wonder...
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Im curious if you listened to the show?
Reason I ask is that he did cover getting the face square quite a bit and designing the club head specifically to do that via balance and weighting.
 
JB said:
For all the talk of the driver being too long, if someone feels that way, why not have it cut down?

I mean I guess I would say this about every single driver on the market right now since most are getting towards these lengths or passed them.
Click to expand...

This brings up something I guess I still dont completely understand and thats swing weight. So this driver is 46" correct? Lets you cut it down to 45". Now are the club dynamics all out of whack? You're taking an already very light club and Id assume making it lighter or will cutting off .5" not really affect the weight much? What about the swing weight? Or does that not really matter?

And yes I did listen to the show.
 
Holy Crap- I can't believe that they are getting $600 to $700 for drivers in Japan!
 
JB said:
Im curious if you listened to the show?
Reason I ask is that he did cover getting the face square quite a bit and designing the club head specifically to do that via balance and weighting.
Click to expand...

Yep, but the main comment about "squaring" was the weight screw at the back. That seems to be pretty conventional with most of the GI / SGI drivers to help square the face and I wouldn't discount it but is it enough to off set the added length? I'm not criticizing but just curious. I know that when I play/test a driver at 45.5+ inches and use the "full" length then I might hit it a bit longer but the misses are worse than when I choke down an inch+ or play a shorter driver. That's true even with all the GI enhancements so it makes me think that, for some of us, a "net longer & playable" metric is achieved with GI features, shorter overall length and lighter also makes some sense. On the other hand, I tried out the 270 so I'll be happy to demo this baby as well.
 
OEM Kevin said:
This brings up something I guess I still dont completely understand and thats swing weight. So this driver is 46" correct? Lets you cut it down to 45". Now are the club dynamics all out of whack? You're taking an already very light club and Id assume making it lighter or will cutting off .5" not really affect the weight much? What about the swing weight? Or does that not really matter?

And yes I did listen to the show.
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That is where fitting comes in.

jmaier said:
Yep, but the main comment about "squaring" was the weight screw at the back. That seems to be pretty conventional with most of the GI / SGI drivers to help square the face and I wouldn't discount it but is it enough to off set the added length? I'm not criticizing but just curious. I know that when I play/test a driver at 45.5+ inches and use the "full" length then I might hit it a bit longer but the misses are worse than when I choke down an inch+ or play a shorter driver. That's true even with all the GI enhancements so it makes me think that, for some of us, a "net longer & playable" metric is achieved with GI features, shorter overall length and lighter also makes some sense. On the other hand, I tried out the 270 so I'll be happy to demo this baby as well.
Click to expand...

Actually it was not just about the screw in the back, but also about the heel weighting on the Black and Toe weighting on the 270.
This all comes down to what Nate discussed in fitting. That we have so much available to us as consumers that every person should get fit properly to find out which is giving us the best numbers.
 
JB said:
That is where fitting comes in.



Actually it was not just about the screw in the back, but also about the heel weighting on the Black and Toe weighting on the 270.
This all comes down to what Nate discussed in fitting. That we have so much available to us as consumers that every person should get fit properly to find out which is giving us the best numbers.
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That's the best advice and I'd love to find a good fitter, that is accessible, that handled a line of drivers other than Titleist, Ping or Callaway. The Cleveland fitting options at Golfsmith are basically grab a driver and take some swings on the monitor; maybe try one in a different flex/loft depending upon inventory. This is how I demo'd the 270/290 last summer. With all the investment in these cool sticks, I wonder if Cleveland has deployed a great fitting cart for the golf box stores? My typical method ( a very weak and common method ) is to choose 3-4 drivers and take swings on the GS monitor, mixing up playing order, and then going by what felt best and had competitive statistics.
 
jmaier said:
That's the best advice and I'd love to find a good fitter, that is accessible, that handled a line of drivers other than Titleist, Ping or Callaway. The Cleveland fitting options at Golfsmith are basically grab a driver and take some swings on the monitor; maybe try one in a different flex/loft depending upon inventory. This is how I demo'd the 270/290 last summer. With all the investment in these cool sticks, I wonder if Cleveland has deployed a great fitting cart for the golf box stores? My typical method ( a very weak and common method ) is to choose 3-4 drivers and take swings on the GS monitor, mixing up playing order, and then going by what felt best and had competitive statistics.
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Something else he touched on during the show.
Every regional rep for demo days is equipped to do fittings with their own launch monitor.
 
JB said:
Something else he touched on during the show.
Every regional rep for demo days is equipped to do fittings with their own launch monitor.
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Yep, but I can get the same result every day with callaway, titleist, mizuno and others without waiting for a formal demo day and the crowds. That said, between this driver and the Black irons, I'll definitely keep my eyes out for a Demo Day because I really want to check out the Miyazaki shaft in the irons. We have a pretty cool golf dome not too far away that has demos in the off season. I don't recall seeing Cleveland there but I'll monitor there schedule. So much equipment, even doing this full time I don't know how you keep up.
 
Well, that would be up to the individual. If someone only wants to try out what is available at their local shop, that is up to them. If others want to try as much as they possibly can, that is up to them as well. They can hit up GolfTEC, demo days, THP Demo Day each year, etc...
 
JB said:
That is where fitting comes in.
Click to expand...

While I agree with a fitting what Im asking is something like this:

When you did the radio show with Nate if you had the forum to submit questions mine would have been this for Nate: "Nate, given all the technology and engineering that has gone into such a light club design, What if any would be the affect of cutting an inch off the length of the shaft? Would you suggest NOT doing this or is it perfectly ok to do with no ill affects?"

This has always been something Ive wanted to ask one of these club designers or engineers.
 
OEM Kevin said:
While I agree with a fitting what Im asking is something like this:

When you did the radio show with Nate if you had the forum to submit questions mine would have been this for Nate: "Nate, given all the technology and engineering that has gone into such a light club design, What if any would be the affect of cutting an inch off the length of the shaft? Would you suggest NOT doing this or is it perfectly ok to do with no ill affects?"

This has always been something Ive wanted to ask one of these club designers or engineers.
Click to expand...

That's a solid question Kmac. Maybe Nate can answer it. He said on the radio show that he would try to answer questions for us.
 
OEM Kevin said:
While I agree with a fitting what Im asking is something like this:

When you did the radio show with Nate if you had the forum to submit questions mine would have been this for Nate: "Nate, given all the technology and engineering that has gone into such a light club design, What if any would be the affect of cutting an inch off the length of the shaft? Would you suggest NOT doing this or is it perfectly ok to do with no ill affects?"

This has always been something Ive wanted to ask one of these club designers or engineers.
Click to expand...

That's a good question OEM. I think I remember someone saying in the Boccieri driver testing thread that Mr. Boccieri said something about the last few inches of the shaft being "dead weight" that didn't have much effect on the clubs performance. Of course I could be making this all up haha
 
TC said:
That's a solid question Kmac. Maybe Nate can answer it. He said on the radio show that he would try to answer questions for us.
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I think its a good question that quite a few people might wonder about. A 46" shaft is probably a bit long for the average consumer so the logical solution to to cut it down. What does this do to the performance of the club? Its already ultra light so now what is it? I cut down the RH and it didnt seem to affect it too much but it also isnt an ultra light club like the Black.
 
Answer

Cutting down a shaft will not have a negative impact on the ultralite technology. It will in fact make the club slightly lighter, but balance should not be troubled. While the club is manufactured to certain specs, each golfer has different sizes and swings and would be impossible to have the perfect fit right off the rack.
 
JB said:
Answer

Cutting down a shaft will not have a negative impact on the ultralite technology. It will in fact make the club slightly lighter, but balance should not be troubled. While the club is manufactured to certain specs, each golfer has different sizes and swings and would be impossible to have the perfect fit right off the rack.
Click to expand...

Very good to know - thanks for the follow up JB!
 
Forum member Tadashi trying out the Cleveland Black driver.

 
This sounds great too. AHHHHHHHH
 
Looking forward to your thoughts Tadashi.
 
Wow does that driver sound good! I have a feeling this will be OEM'd by the end of November lol. Quick question JB, I play a 10.5* head with my D2 is the launch of the cleveland black significantly higher that you would go down in loft from what you normally play? I wouldnt think so but thought I would ask.
 
It is slightly higher. Mostly due to the shaft used and where the weighting is in the club head.
 
Any idea what these ebony beauties are going to set us back? Will I have to sell blood again to afford it?
 
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