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Acesteve

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after +30 years of golf, I've finally learned to maintain my lead arm hinge into the downswing. this has made amazing difference in my full swings. However, last 2 weeks of play my distance control on my chips is very poor. in my full swing, I have an involuntary release of my trail hand that is also now happening in my chip. Even with a short swing and a bit of stress/pressure I release my hands and get 2 times the carry I sought. When I tried to not release I seemed to get weak pushes out to the right of my target line.

will this just take time to relearn chipping or should I be using some type of grip that does not let the club release?
 
Funny the timing of this topic. Same thing the OP is discribing happened to me yesterday during my chipping practice. My usually decent chipping method became to handsy, breaking my trailing wrist. Essentially I was flipping my hands. Too many thin shots.

I have no idea why I started doing this. I do think it might of had something to do with the amount of extra clothing I was wearing. Maybe I lost some feel due to the colder conditions....idk

My fix was to not worry about the problem. I just switched to hitting lob shots for that practice session. I would've done the same thing if I had been playing.

I will go back today. If the problem is still there, I will hit some putts with firm wrists, and then move to chipping to see if that helps. My guess is that the problem will solve itself.

If being too handsy really becomes a problem, I will break down my chipping method, and start from scratch. A quick rebuild might be needed.
 
Out of curiosity, why would releasing your hands be a bad thing?

A strong wrist and good release goes a long way, literally. Sounds like you might just need some work on speed, timing, etc of your new lead position and that trying to hold it off had you delivering an open face with less speed.

That's a pretty simple interpretation of what I read, but short game being really nuanced is what makes it challenging.
 
I'm not sure if it is good or bad to be honest. on the full swing, I have been searching for this natural release for 3 decades in vain. Still, when I putt I use a grip that does not let the face open or close in any significant way. Just wondering if that is what I should do with chips around the green to take the speed variable out of the chipping equation.
 
Very timely thread for me. I have attempted both with my chipping game and have observed both from players. I have seen good players chip with stiff hands/wrist and others very loose. One guy I play with is so rigid his whole body is like it is frozen, but he cannot chip well at all.

From what I can tell I do best chipping when I use my body and release well to create a good follow through. I feel like chipping is one of the hardest parts of the game because of all the variables, such as the ground, lie, distance, swing, and so on.
 
I've seen both as well. Historically I use a stiff hands/wrist but it requires a slow and larger turn along with a prayer my trail hand does not try and hit at the ball. as long as the right hand does not create a fatty then my speed control was pretty good
 
I would say slow things down. Practice it on the range hitting 30 yard chips at half speed. That should enable you to hold the angles you are looking for. Hit 3 in a row then try to hit one at normal pace without thinking about it. Over time it should become the new normal.
 
I don't even recall who to thank here but someone posted Kevin Kisner's chipping video last year and it has been life changing for me. I was chipping incorrectly with my hands ahead at impact for 30 years. It does take some practice. I skulled a few for a while until I got it down solidly but I now consistently pop the ball into the air, fly it the proper distance and watch it release toward the hole.

 
i've seen this video some time ago and it is a good and provides explanation. I would see this as basically dead hands with no lag (i.e. body and butt of club move at same rate)
 
IMO most golfers learn golf the wrong way around. Instead of starting with the short shots and learning clubface control and ball control, they begin at the other end - the long game. Consequently their golf game hasn't got a proper foundation. Before golf became an industry, golf instruction books (Mitchell, Jones etc) stressed the importance of starting with the short game and building a solid foundation of playing short shots before extending their learning to the long game.
This is a common issue with those who come to the game as adults and want to play golf immediately.
 
I went out and worked on the instruction by Kevin. my observation is that by keeping both elbows tight to the body and thus moving at same rate as body is a big difference. More like my putting stroke but longer and with knee action. Will get to the range and see if it helps me with distance control next time out. this is my key area to work on in 2022. My putting is decent but just not getting close enough on my chips to give myself a decent statistical opportunity
 
Acesteve said:
I went out and worked on the instruction by Kevin. my observation is that by keeping both elbows tight to the body and thus moving at same rate as body is a big difference. More like my putting stroke but longer and with knee action. Will get to the range and see if it helps me with distance control next time out. this is my key area to work on in 2022. My putting is decent but just not getting close enough on my chips to give myself a decent statistical opportunity
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I use the part Kisner says about keeping the right(trail) elbow tucked into my side. It's almost like a pivot point for me. If I want to hit it higher, I let my wrists hinge and release the shaft to 90* at impact. For a lower shot not much hinge and move the ball back in my stance some. I've found that it really helps me have a much more consistent arc or low point in these short shots. Honestly, I dont know what, if any, of the other stuff he mentions that I use.
 
I tend to be one of the strange people that chip both with a strong wrist and holding off the release, and releasing a bit handsy or flippy depending on my desired height. Generally speaking, I keep minimal hinge on lower flighted chips in which I get the ball rolling on the ground like a putt. On short sided chips, I tend to hinge and release more to get the ball up a bit. I occasionally try a mini flop in these situations but two years ago my mini flop turned into like a 30 yard flop over the green and onto the patio.
 
This will be a fun follow as I have an interest in this topic.
 
I use both a bend and hold approach as well as a flip, depending on what I am trying to do with it. Ironically, my chipping game is pretty solid while my pitching game is a disaster.
 
I'm going to post two messages. this first one is on my range session. Sorry, no trackman so these are eyeball observations and the first part of our range is down hill. Used a 54degree SW and my 7i as test. Hit off the matt mostly but hit a few from dead winter rough. Rough shots were higher then shots off the matt.

- using my interpetation of the Kisner approach, I was able to chip the 54degree roughly 18 yards or so with height ranging from 8ft to maybe 12ft. Opening up the wedge as wide as Kevin appears to does lift the ball, carry downhill was still about 18 but would have landed softer. Using a 7i downhill, I likely flew it still 18yards but only 3 foot off the ground and coming in hot. My club likely never comes past 7:30 to 8pm high if it was a clock face in the backswing and hands were quiet. I don't think I can get anything more out of this motion. I need a lot of practice to get a lot less out of this motion. If I wanted less distance, I think I'd have to simply go with the 60 degree.

- then I took a normal swing to 9 on the clock face but hands dead. My carry distance jumped up to about 40-45 yards and height went up at least 30ft

- Finally, I went up to about 9:30 or so but let my wrists hinge. Ball jumped up to 50 to 60yards and height was higher then the dead hands swing. by moving my hands way down the shaft I could make this ball land at 45yards or so.

I hit about 35 balls. 2 were mishit, the rest were within a few feet of target line in a zero pressure enironment. Net, I don't see a dispersion difference more about how i wanted the ball to fly.
 
So this past Saturday, I was trying to take a normal swing to maybe 8pm on the clock and could not control the distance. Now that I've measured some shots and reflected on the bad chips this past weekend, i think I need a new plan. 2 of the chips I hit poorly were roughly 4-5 ft off green on collar chipping onto a green with major undulation. In both situations, I needed only a couple feet of carry then roll up a hill or to a pin 60ft away. My ball control needs to improve vastly with a wedge to get this right.

i think while I work on my chipping I will put my 4h back in the bag and pull the 4i. While I swing the 4i better, the 4h makes a really good putter from the collar and as I use a putting stroke, I think I will be better on distance control.
 
The other change I've made is that I used to adhere to the notion of getting the ball on the green asap and then letting it roll to the pin. With as comfortable as I've gotten with the Kiz approach, I now throw the ball all the way to the hole over the top of all of those undulations eliminating the ball taking an unpredicted slope. I rarely have anything more than a short putt.
 
NEhomer said:
The other change I've made is that I used to adhere to the notion of getting the ball on the green asap and then letting it roll to the pin. With as comfortable as I've gotten with the Kiz approach, I now throw the ball all the way to the hole over the top of all of those undulations eliminating the ball taking an unpredicted slope. I rarely have anything more than a short putt.
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I've rejected this idea for a long time because classic approach is minmize carry and maximize roll. I might need to do some on course tests. The slopes involved in real greens makes this a learning experience hard to get on my mostly flat practice greens
 
Acesteve said:
I've rejected this idea for a long time because classic approach is minmize carry and maximize roll. I might need to do some on course tests. The slopes involved in real greens makes this a learning experience hard to get on my mostly flat practice greens
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We have some pretty good undulations here and there. If I can consistently toss it over them to the flat spot near the hole, I do much better. The key is to get consistent height so that the roll out is short and predictable.
 
I find that when my chipping just leaves me, I hit low shots with an 8 iron and it gets me back on track. It eliminates fat and thin shots.
 
For chips, I use my putting stroke. If it’s a 15 yard chip, I hit it like a 45 foot putt. I change the club I use to adjust fly/roll ratio. I was taught this at a brief clinic at a golf outing years ago and it’s worked well for a guy who doesn’t have enough time to practice/play.
 
NEhomer said:
The other change I've made is that I used to adhere to the notion of getting the ball on the green asap and then letting it roll to the pin. With as comfortable as I've gotten with the Kiz approach, I now throw the ball all the way to the hole over the top of all of those undulations eliminating the ball taking an unpredicted slope. I rarely have anything more than a short putt.
Click to expand...
I can't get away with that on my home course. The greens are hard and don't bite at all, if you throw the ball to the hole it'll most likely roll clear off the back of the green. I can bring them in high and soft with my 58°, and they still won't check up. It's hugely frustrating to hit a nice, high shot onto the green and be rewarded with your next shot being a chip from the back rough!
 
Snowman said:
I can't get away with that on my home course. The greens are hard and don't bite at all, if you throw the ball to the hole it'll most likely roll clear off the back of the green. I can bring them in high and soft with my 58°, and they still won't check up. It's hugely frustrating to hit a nice, high shot onto the green and be rewarded with your next shot being a chip from the back rough!
Click to expand...

Ok but if you get it rolling all the way to the hole it can roll right off the back just as easily, no? I'm talking about a 30ft chip/pitch here, not something that has to bite. It stops ideally half to 2/3rds of the way to the hole with a short roll-out.
 
At least for me, the problem with throwing the ball at the hole is that I can't spin the ball consistently. Sometimes I'll attack the pin and the ball will roll out past it, the next hole I'll aim short expecting some roll and the ball will stop dead.
 
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