Arccos Golf stats on Scratch vs 20 handicap

[djt311]

As someone who plays in between the 10 and 20 they stats match up pretty close to what my golf app tells me.

 

[Canadan]

The scratch gets up and down like crazy (in comparison), has double the number of one-putts and a quarter the number of 3-putts. Have the scratch putt like the 20, and they're not going to be scratch anymore.

But as has been proven, GIR is especially important, and few things do more to increase GIR than being closer to the green, so yes, driving is equally important.

Gotta be competent in all areas to score well.

You've never met a 20 who has a great short game?

 

[Birdman03]

I think the one putt, three putt, and GIR comparisons put a lot of color to that 5.5 more putts. When you get on the green in regulation 10.08 holes a round verses 3.6 times a round and you still take 5.5 less putts that's a pretty significant gap in quality of putting. The strokes gained putting would be higher than 5.5, probably more like 8 or 9 strokes gained.

Good point. I would like to see a stat for # of putts when GIR. If that is below 2 you are probably a damn good golfer.

 

[That post]

It seems like those of us who track our stats on various apps are saying that it looks pretty close to our level.
I want to hear from the Data Experience guys.
@echico
@jbb2388
@Scooby45
@Golfers Anonymous

How close does your handicap and stats match up with the image in the OP?

 

[wadesworld]

You've never met a 20 who has a great short game?

I could count them on one hand.

 

[Birdman03]

You've never met a 20 who has a great short game?

No, but if I did that "great" short game would probably mean getting up and down significantly more often than other golfers at his level. Good, but certainly not elite.

 

[Canadan]

I could count them on one hand.

Interesting.

I know loads of golfers who are awful away from the green and unreal around it.
I know loads of golfers who hit it interplanetary but can't putt to save their life.

I don't have an issue with golfers comparing their stats to their handicap to see what they can work on to improve, but they will never be a hard line reality of that handicap.

 

[Canadan]

No, but if I did that "great" short game would probably mean getting up and down significantly more often than other golfers at his level. Good, but certainly not elite.

I've played with plenty of scratch golfers with less than elite short games.

I don't get the parallel here.

 

[echico]

It seems like those of us who track our stats on various apps are saying that it looks pretty close to our level.
I want to hear from the Data Experience guys.
@echico
@jbb2388
@Scooby45
@Golfers Anonymous

How close does your handicap and stats match up with the image in the OP?

Distance - 275 (P-Avg)
FIR - 54%
GIR - 35%
Up/Down 25yds - 66%
1 putts per round - 6.66
3 putts per round - .54
Putts per round - 29.2
birdies - 1.44
Bogey - 5.94
Doubles or worse - 0.9

Handicap just went to 6.4 Need to improve iron play which would then probably lead to longer putts which would make my putts go up but may bring scores down. Too many variables to say there is a single way to play or improve at golf.

 

[Birdman03]

I've played with plenty of scratch golfers with less than elite short games.

I don't get the parallel here.

I think we need to define what a great short game is for a 20 HC. Great for that skill level, or great compared to all golfers?

The scratch golfer's average short game is likely significantly better than average for all golfers. The longer and straighter he hits it the less he needs the short game to be scratch. It still needs to be good on the 6 or 7 greens he misses.

 

[willplaysgolf]

Based on the discussion, I'd be interested to see the standard deviations on each of these numbers

 

[Canadan]

I think we need to define what a great short game is for a 20 HC. Great for that skill level, or great compared to all golfers?

The scratch golfer's average short game is likely significantly better than average for all golfers. The longer and straighter he hits it the less he needs the short game to be scratch. It still needs to be good on the 6 or 7 greens he misses.

I'm not talking about average. The average is right in front of us.

 

[Daddio]

Pretty much what I assume the averages of a massive sample pool would distill out to. Issue is though, of the many golfers I've played with I've never known one who was average in every facet of their game per their handicap. We all shoot the scores we do because of our unique blends of strenths and weaknesses. These tend to flip/flop for us too. That's why I feel these distilled massive data set averages might be interesting but they don't provide much useful info to individual golfers.

 

[jbb2388]

It seems like those of us who track our stats on various apps are saying that it looks pretty close to our level.
I want to hear from the Data Experience guys.
@echico
@jbb2388
@Scooby45
@Golfers Anonymous

How close does your handicap and stats match up with the image in the OP?

My game is garbage lately. Probably closer to the 20 index numbers

 

[Scooby45]

It seems like those of us who track our stats on various apps are saying that it looks pretty close to our level.
I want to hear from the Data Experience guys.
@echico
@jbb2388
@Scooby45
@Golfers Anonymous

How close does your handicap and stats match up with the image in the OP?

What’s an Arccos?

 

[Scooby45]

Counting stats are really hard to assess game stats in my humble opinion

 

[That post]

Counting stats are really hard to assess game stats in my humble opinion

How does your handicap line up with the image in the OP. And does your shotscope data fall in the ranges of those stats?

 

[Birdman03]

000

Based on the discussion, I'd be interested to see the standard deviations on each of these numbers

That would be interesting. My guess would be that the largest variation is in Driver Distance. After that maybe 3-putt rate or Up/Down %age.

 

[GolfFest]

I’m not sure how I feel. I have different stats that match something in all 3 columns. I understand this is averages though and more than one way to get the ball to the hole

 

[Scooby45]

How does your handicap line up with the image in the OP. And does your shotscope data fall in the ranges of those stats?

It’s a mix, which is what one might expect for a large data sets of players and using averages. Markedly better in some, worse in others.

But again, where Shotscope really shines are the strokes gained data. I think that can tell a much better story.

 

[The Milk Man]

Driver distance would be my focus for a comment. I played in a tournament last weekend and was paired up with a range of handicaps 7 - 26, The 26 guy was a nice young kid in his 20s just starting in his 2nd year. As we played we talked about the game of golf and I told him - one thing you will find is in these tournaments the guy who hits it the furthest is generally the guy with the highest score. He laughed and so did the rest of the group. I was the oldest at 77 and also the shortest hitter of the tee box. When we finished - we had to compare scores and just as I told the kid as we started - the order of the scores was just about in the order I said -- I was the lowest by 4 strokes. the 10 or so handicap who could hit a driver 290 yards had the highest score which was close to 100;.

What you generally find at all levels of golf are the guys who hit it farther than average collect the most trophies and win the most cash. Never in the history of golf has a short hitter of the golf ball dominated the game. The best players of all time Tiger and Jack were two of the longest players in their generation.

 

[McLovin]

What are yalls thoughts on this?

View attachment 9265156

to scratch:
driving distance - 259y, i'm longer but not by a ton
driving accuracy - 51%, i'm only at 45%
gir - 56%, i'm only at 44%
up/down - 57%, i'm only at 37%
1p - 5.2, i'm at 4.9
3p - 1.3, i'm at 0.6
putts - 30.7, i'm at 31.3
birdies - 2.2, i'm at 1.6
bogeys - 4.6, i'm at 6.1
doubles or worse - 0.7, i'm at 2.1

my takeaway is a few more gir, and a couple more times up-and-down and i should be closer to where i've always wanted to get

 

[CorvetteGuy]

What you generally find at all levels of golf are the guys who hit it farther than average collect the most trophies and win the most cash. Never in the history of golf has a short hitter of the golf ball dominated the game. The best players of all time Tiger and Jack were two of the longest players in their generation.

Very true - if Tiger had been there or Jack - yea they would have won.

 

[echico]

What you generally find at all levels of golf are the guys who hit it farther than average collect the most trophies and win the most cash. Never in the history of golf has a short hitter of the golf ball dominated the game. The best players of all time Tiger and Jack were two of the longest players in their generation.

Not true at all for all levels of golf. When talking about pros sure you can say distance is a defining skill. I have played with a lot of different caps that could hit the ball far but they are not the ones that always win the money.

 

[CorvetteGuy]

Not true at all for all levels of golf. When talking about pros sure you can say distance is a defining skill. I have played with a lot of different caps that could hit the ball far but they are not the ones that always win the money.

this is also true -- Out here in the Great Pacific Northwest -- many of our course fairways here are bordered on both sides with thick deep forest trees and brush. with the fairways being 40 -50 yards wide - sometimes 30 yards wide. A player does not see any other fairways other than the one they are on. So, if you hit it far, it better be straight otherwise you are laying 3 instead of 1 when you hit your next shot. Most of the Fairway sides are not marked as a Red Penalty area. I love playing against 30 year old guys that hit it 290-300 yards.. Bring it on.