Future of Product Testing on THP

[Griff]

I have to put my 2 cents in as well. When we were down in Carlsbad and were talking with the GolfWRX guys most of them were just absolutely amazed at what THP was about. They were amazed that we had just selected a bunch of testers for the R11 FW and hybrids. They were amazed that pretty much any active THPer had the opportunity to participate in the testing. They were amazed that there wasn't some sort of VIP testing, because that is how it done over there (at least from their perspectives). There were 2 people there that weren't amazed and they were both in this elite testing fraternity. I love that THP puts these products into the hands of the general public and I don't think that should change because it is precisely this that makes THP such a unique place. I am sorry that some people feel that they deserve to be testers, I find this very strange! Is it okay to be a bit bummed if you didn't get selected to test out a product that you were very interested in? Absolutely! Is it okay to feel that for some reason you deserve to be a tester? Absolutely not! I love reading the reviews of the people out there. I follow many of them very closely and I follow even more closely the people who I feel has similar swing tendencies as me. If the testing wasn't the way it is I would never have figured out that G4L and me seem to be fit for very similar products. So when G4L says something is working or not working then I put more weight in his opinions. Again this is the beauty of the current testing paradigm; when you open up the testing population you are going to cover a much greater variety of swings then if it is a limited testing pool. Not to disparage other sites too much, BUT that is why when you go to other sites, they are preoccupied with blades, thin top-lines, and forged clubs. Because that is what the narrow pool of testers likes. Do you think the Mashie would have been able to find such love on other sites. I don't. Too much offset and a closed face, is what they would have said. But it just works! Do you think the Burner 2.0s would have had so much love? No too thick of top-line and too wide of a sole. But there are many THPers who have found a wonderful club for them because of that testing.

So to summarize my thoughts. I just feel that THP is a very uniquely special place, and it is uniquely special because each one of our opinions matter to someone out there. I think it should remain that way. Sorry that a small minority has to cause frustration, but they are the minority. I think it is safe to say that the majority of THPers like the way things are currently set up. If you guys need one or two more staffers to help with the load of testing requests from companies, then I think that is totally great, but I think the majority of testing should continue the way it is currently set up.

Well said. It makes no common sense to not test for the common golfer. How many of us need an open faced driver? How many of us need to shave with the top line of our irons? To change the way THP tests would be a mistake I think. Who cares how well a club performs when you hit the sweet spot? They ALL do great when you hit the sweet spot. It is here at THP that you can get feedback on how the common golfer hits their sticks. Crappy shots included.

JB and crew, I wouldn't worry yourself over this. You are all doing a great job and I am happy to be here. People will always have their personal quibbles. As long as you stay true to your vision it'll all be good.

 

[JR]

Your word does count, but it's clear that people get super defensive, it's human nature.

Here's a complaint for you: I think that when it comes to testing equipment that the parameters should be stiffer. I think that it should go to a forum member with a higher post count and a forum member that's been here longer. I take this seriously, and I've certainly earned my right to test equipment, why shouldn't someone else?

The excuse that being active for some doesn't entail posting is funny to me, just look at this thread. You "question" taking away seeding and forum testing and the lurkers suddenly post. Complete transparency in my opinion.

*let's be honest, it wouldn't be me if I didn't say all this. Like it, love it, hate it, it's who I am*

Rep added bro.

I think a tester should be a longtime, high posting member, even if that may exclude me. You are completely right.

 

[Dent]

Your word does count, but it's clear that people get super defensive, it's human nature.

Here's a complaint for you: I think that when it comes to testing equipment that the parameters should be stiffer. I think that it should go to a forum member with a higher post count and a forum member that's been here longer. I take this seriously, and I've certainly earned my right to test equipment, why shouldn't someone else?

The excuse that being active for some doesn't entail posting is funny to me, just look at this thread. You "question" taking away seeding and forum testing and the lurkers suddenly post. Complete transparency in my opinion.

*let's be honest, it wouldn't be me if I didn't say all this. Like it, love it, hate it, it's who I am*

I agree TC,

Although I feel rather stupid for posting this because I just received a club for testing, but I think our loyalty and longevity to this forum does count for some merit. I'm not complaining at all but I think TC is onto something here. I don't like to say we are a higher class than newer members because we are all equal, but honestly it all boils down to those new people who register just for the free stuff. Out of anything on this forum when that stuff happened with the morgan cup I was just livid because It was just flat out insulting and I'd wish for something like that to not happen again.

 

[JB]

JB and GG I dont want you to answer this here but I want to ask a question for you two to think about. Who is doing the complaining? Do you know? Are they people members who havebeen here for a year or two and have contributed significantly to the THP experience? A relatively newbie who stil might not get what THP is all about and joined because of something he saw on FB? Alot of understanding can come from who is making the complaint as the complaint itself.

The point of this thread is open discussion and yes we know some of who have been complaining. If that was the case and it was just someone with a few posts and a FB account, there would not have been the need for the thread. The goal is to have a good conversation and be transparent about THP like we try to be in most cases.

 

[JB]

I want to add that many are assuming that new people are coming here and when they dont get in on something they are complaining. However you have to understand that it is the other side too. The side that says "why are new people getting things and I have been here for 2 years and not received anything". If this was just someone new to the site upset, we would not have felt the need for an open discussion.

 

[Hawk]

Your word does count, but it's clear that people get super defensive, it's human nature.

Here's a complaint for you: I think that when it comes to testing equipment that the parameters should be stiffer. I think that it should go to a forum member with a higher post count and a forum member that's been here longer. I take this seriously, and I've certainly earned my right to test equipment, why shouldn't someone else?

The excuse that being active for some doesn't entail posting is funny to me, just look at this thread. You "question" taking away seeding and forum testing and the lurkers suddenly post. Complete transparency in my opinion.

*let's be honest, it wouldn't be me if I didn't say all this. Like it, love it, hate it, it's who I am*

Have to say that I agree with this quite a bit. I think that there are some exceptions, but I think that you should show your ability to post and be a productive member of the site before you review equipment. Hell, write some reviews of stuff you already have. Aggro did it the other day, I did it a couple times long ago as well. Things like that show that you are trying to contribute to the knowledge base of the community.

 

[JR]

Have to say that I agree with this quite a bit. I think that there are some exceptions, but I think that you should show your ability to post and be a productive member of the site before you review equipment. Hell, write some reviews of stuff you already have. Aggro did it the other day, I did it a couple times long ago as well. Things like that show that you are trying to contribute to the knowledge base of the community.

Although I am not sure that counts. I kinda posted it because I was really bored. Since we are being honest.

 

[portaltib]

Future of Product Testing on THP

JB/GG:

As you've already seen, you just can't please everyone all the time. I find THP to be a great site for the Everyman Golfer. I don't think you guys need to change anything. I think if someone gets upset they need to take a Mulligan or head for the 19th hole!

Keep up the great work and reviews...and testing!

 

[TC]

I agree TC,

Although I feel rather stupid for posting this because I just received a club for testing, but I think our loyalty and longevity to this forum does count for some merit. I'm not complaining at all but I think TC is onto something here. I don't like to say we are a higher class than newer members because we are all equal, but honestly it all boils down to those new people who register just for the free stuff. Out of anything on this forum when that stuff happened with the morgan cup I was just livid because It was just flat out insulting and I'd wish for something like that to not happen again.

Of course it sucks saying it, but it's the truth. It's only fair to reward those who have shown support to the site. Support comes in many ways: posting, reading articles and listening to radio shows on the home page (and leaving comments, you know that the OEM's look at that), buying gear from the THP store (most of which was requested by forum members), and donating. That's all ways that one can show support. If you can't afford to donate, fine, but read and be active on the homepage at least!!!! Companies suggest testers, how do you think they make their suggestions? That's right, ACTIVE forum members.

 

[Hawk]

I want to add that many are assuming that new people are coming here and when they dont get in on something they are complaining. However you have to understand that it is the other side too. The side that says "why are new people getting things and I have been here for 2 years and not received anything". If this was just someone new to the site upset, we would not have felt the need for an open discussion.

I hate to see that. Makes me thing of Old Gray. That dude didn't win a thing on this forum for a LONG time and wasn't chosen for testing, but he was always there cheering everybody on and learning from the testers. That's the attitude to have, in my opinion.

 

[Hawk]

Although I am not sure that counts. I kinda posted it because I was really bored. Since we are being honest.

Regardless, people want to read stuff like that. There are going to be people out there interested in finding info on that putter and threads like that are great for them. I did one on a free GPS app at one point, also out of boredom and because I like to write. There were some people who got some use out of it. We're here to share and talk golf.

 

[JR]

Of course it sucks saying it, but it's the truth. It's only fair to reward those who have shown support to the site. Support comes in many ways: posting, reading articles and listening to radio shows on the home page (and leaving comments, you know that the OEM's look at that), buying gear from the THP store (most of which was requested by forum members), and donating. That's all ways that one can show support. If you can't afford to donate, fine, but read and be active on the homepage at least!!!! Companies suggest testers, how do you think they make their suggestions? That's right, ACTIVE forum members.

Man, I just realized how little I post on the homepage. I need to get on it.

I hate to see that. Makes me thing of Old Gray. That dude didn't win a thing on this forum for a LONG time and wasn't chosen for testing, but he was always there cheering everybody on and learning from the testers. That's the attitude to have, in my opinion.

Exactly. IMO, Gray is the perfect forum member, nicer than a sack full of sleeping puppies, wise, and active as any of us. He and KB both. Just good people.

 

[bogey_russ]

Of course it sucks saying it, but it's the truth. It's only fair to reward those who have shown support to the site. Support comes in many ways: posting, reading articles and listening to radio shows on the home page (and leaving comments, you know that the OEM's look at that), buying gear from the THP store (most of which was requested by forum members), and donating. That's all ways that one can show support. If you can't afford to donate, fine, but read and be active on the homepage at least!!!! Companies suggest testers, how do you think they make their suggestions? That's right, ACTIVE forum members.

i guess you never answered my other question... how would you know if someone were buying stuff from the store or even listening to the radio show when there is no "donor" style tag for those?

 

[tomahawk18]

Wow, when I started looking at this thread there were 16 pages. Now it's up to 18 pages long. I am replying in the middle of page 4.

Here's my thoughts.

JB, leave the testing as you have been doing it. A VIP program I don't think will work, as it could alienate those who aren't VIP's as was mentioned earlier. And what exactly would a VIP be? Requiring donations could work, but then you would have the people who say, "I donated, why wasn't I picked?" Requiring people to send the product back could help some, but you know there would be people who wouldn't send the product back.

Someone suggested making a minimum 100 or 250 post count requirement for testing. We saw what happened with the Morgan Cup qualifying. Better than a post count only requirement, I'd suggest a tenure requirement with a post count requirement as well. Nothing crazy, but to see so many people's first post be "I'd love to test these out" gets to you after a while. A few months, maybe six months, with some kind of post requirement as well, such as 100 posts a month for however long you want to set the minimum tenure to be able to test to be. That would be 3 or 4 posts a day. I don't know how "active" that would actually be, but you don't want to tell people they have to make 10 posts a day either. If people want to be a true tester for THP, they can at least participate a little bit and not just show up at testing time. And how hard is it to make 3 or 4 posts a day? And if the tenure was three months but you've been here for six months, then it would be less than 2 posts a day. I don't think that's asking anyone to be too active.

If you make the minimum length 3 months, that's 300 posts. We have over 200 people with over 300 posts right now. Maybe 100 posts a month is too many (I don't think so!). Make it 50 posts a month. We have over 300 members with 150 posts right now. Either of those is a pretty deep testing pool. What I am NOT saying is to require 100 posts a month every month. I'm just saying if the minimum tenure is three months and 300 posts, then anyone who has been here longer than 3 months and has more than 300 posts, qualifies for testing. Even if you've been here 2 years and only have 301 posts. But if the key word is active, maybe you could add "with a minimum of 50 posts in the last 30 days" so someone who got a bunch of posts early and disappeared for a year or so couldn't just come in and be a tester.

The above was originally going to just be an idea, but after typing it all out, I like this idea a lot. I personally like the 6 month tenure with 600 posts before you would be allowed to test. Three months would possibly work too, but I still like the 100 posts per month reuirement (again just for the time it takes to get tenure). It may have already been brought up, but like I said, I am only on page 4.

Smallville,

This is a very fair, logical idea. I liked the Morgan cup minimum 500 posts. It shows dedication to post that much. I only have 305, which pales in comparison to some members, but I have been on here everyday for 3 months, and love THP. I feel like I have posted a ton, and would still be 200 short of the number, which at my current pace would take 2 more months. I think that is plenty of dedication to the site to get a chance to test, and then if the tester doesn't live up to their end of the bargain, no more testing. It also promotes activity for the forum.

 

[Hawk]

Of course it sucks saying it, but it's the truth. It's only fair to reward those who have shown support to the site. Support comes in many ways: posting, reading articles and listening to radio shows on the home page (and leaving comments, you know that the OEM's look at that), buying gear from the THP store (most of which was requested by forum members), and donating. That's all ways that one can show support. If you can't afford to donate, fine, but read and be active on the homepage at least!!!! Companies suggest testers, how do you think they make their suggestions? That's right, ACTIVE forum members.

100% agreed on all this. If you buy a hat, shirt, umbrella, etc, buy a THP one! Also, it kills me to see a review (that we all say we want to read) or a radio show with an industry expert and it just sits there dying with no comments or downloads.

 

[c_ault]

Your word does count, but it's clear that people get super defensive, it's human nature.

Here's a complaint for you: I think that when it comes to testing equipment that the parameters should be stiffer. I think that it should go to a forum member with a higher post count and a forum member that's been here longer. I take this seriously, and I've certainly earned my right to test equipment, why shouldn't someone else?

The excuse that being active for some doesn't entail posting is funny to me, just look at this thread. You "question" taking away seeding and forum testing and the lurkers suddenly post. Complete transparency in my opinion.

*let's be honest, it wouldn't be me if I didn't say all this. Like it, love it, hate it, it's who I am*

Not arguing and not necessarily in disagreement but doesn't that lead to a VIP situation?

 

[JB]

i guess you never answered my other question... how would you know if someone were buying stuff from the store or even listening to the radio show when there is no "donor" style tag for those?

We would know.

 

[Jeanthemachine]

Requirements to test:

longevity - how long? - 3 months? - 2 years?
# of posts - how many - 50? - 500?

longevity can mean that you were lucky to find THP earlier than others.
# of posts - does "welcome to THP" count? "Great review"? how will you value the posts.

I'd like to see fewer "Great review" posts so I can see the meat on the bone.

 

[Hawk]

Not arguing and not necessarily in disagreement but doesn't that lead to a VIP situation?

To me, it's not about VIP as much as it is being a known and respected member of the community that will be there to answer questions from readers.

 

[TC]

i guess you never answered my other question... how would you know if someone were buying stuff from the store or even listening to the radio show when there is no "donor" style tag for those?

I know who listens to radio shows and who doesn't. Why do you think that we haven't recorded another "Up & Down"? Fact is, not enough listeners.

And I don't know who buys out of the store, but most people proclaim their purchases in the "what golf stuff did you buy today". Dude, I could care less if you donate or not. You don't have to, and I can't make you. I also don't know if you've bought anything from the THP store or not, that's not the point of my post you quoted. You say you can't afford to donate.......that's fine, but I know that you read and comment on the homepage, that's giving back to me.

 

[portaltib]

I love to hear that. And we will continue to do as much testing of ladies gear as we can and include women in the testing as much as we can. I own this site so trust me I want to see more women here and actively involved in the forum discussion.

GG: My wife got me started playing this game. I can't think of anyone else I'd rather spend 18 holes with!. I love reading reviews and it matters not to me if they are male/female, scratch or 36. We all play to have fun (at least I hope so) and we all try to get that damn ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible. I played high school and college tennis and when time caught up with me I thought my competitive sports days were over. Then my wife asked if I wanted to take up golf so we would have something to do together outdoors. Now she's said she's created a monster. I'm a techie so reading reviews and wanting to test everything "Buy a better game I say!) is right up my alley. Keep up the great reviews and testing! All points of view are appreciated!

 

[TC]

Not arguing and not necessarily in disagreement but doesn't that lead to a VIP situation?

Nope, everyone has to put their time in, just like getting a promotion at work. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just being honest and airing my thoughts on the matter.

 

[10YardDraw]

I dont think i even knew you could post stuff on the Home Page, thought it was just links to reviews and products, i have listened to the radio shows and watched the videos though.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Your word does count, but it's clear that people get super defensive, it's human nature.

Here's a complaint for you: I think that when it comes to testing equipment that the parameters should be stiffer. I think that it should go to a forum member with a higher post count and a forum member that's been here longer. I take this seriously, and I've certainly earned my right to test equipment, why shouldn't someone else?

The excuse that being active for some doesn't entail posting is funny to me, just look at this thread. You "question" taking away seeding and forum testing and the lurkers suddenly post. Complete transparency in my opinion.

*let's be honest, it wouldn't be me if I didn't say all this. Like it, love it, hate it, it's who I am*

I agree for the most part, but sometimes post counts can be overinflated as has been mentioned. When the Morgan Cup was first announced and you needed 300+ posts to qualify, a lot of people mentioned hitting the "Banter Away Thread" just to meet the qouta. I think that seniority should have some bearing or weight. I also know that just because you've been around for a while alone doesn't make you more worthy than a newbie. I work with people who use seniority as an excuse. Does that make seniority a valid argument?

If I had known about this site in the past I would have signed up immediately without question. I login to this website almost everyday and stay for hours sometimes, reading and reading and reading, truly (and if JB can/would like to verify I'm okay with that). I spent what seemed like 4+ hours reading and watching videos just on the kingdom diary last week alone and posted only once.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, my first reason for signing up was for the contests, the 19 days of christmas to be exact. I then immediately posted in the first 10 threads I could. After waiting around to see the announcement of winners I then started poking around and saw (and why I return just about everyday) something that has helped me make decisions on new purchases and improve my game. After I didn't "Win" anything in the contests I began signing up feverishly to test equipment, and then waiting. I wasn't ever disappointed in not being picked by any means and now truly understand what it is to be "active" in the forums.

RonInThornton and I have been crossing paths on occasion and he's even organized a THP outing for the Rocky Mountain/Western Plains! There's going to be at least 8 of us getting together in May. That's ultimately what this site means to me, the "Social Aspect." The fact that testing is a possibility is fantastic.

Testing in the end is a "Privilege NOT a Right." If you can't understand that, why are you here? Just because you the ability to complain doesn't mean you should.

The first thing I do after logging in at work is check THP.

 

[doug63]

First, I'd like to thank JB, GG & others at THP for providing honest and thorough reviews. I discovered this site about a year ago an have gotten excellent info on a number of clubs. Every club in my bag sans wedges & putter were purchased after reading test results from THP!

I see nothing wrong with the way things are done regarding selection of testers. It would be a shame not to have testing and test results continue as they are now. Do we want to be left with only the "Hot (bought) List" !!