- Thread starter
- #26
I half expected to hear a "That's not fair!" And then some stomping on the ground with fingers in the ears, while screaming.
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Michelle Wie - Really?
I half expected to hear a "That's not fair!" And then some stomping on the ground with fingers in the ears, while screaming.
White Rhino
SANDBAGGER!!!!!!!
Hmmm Stanford you say? I think I know someone else who got into Stanford based on their golf ability and lately has been an airhead. :act-up:
- Thread starter
- #29
I didn't knock her for getting in based on her golfing ability. Thousands of athletes get into good schools for athletics every year.
This is no different.
Thats the exact one I was thinking of but couldnt remember. She just cant remember. I have that same thing happen when I get caught or in trouble too. Its called selective memory. LOL.
Now in Tigers defense at least he has won and won majors. Wie has acted like she deserves to be the Tiger of the LPGA before she even won anything. Earn it girl.
- Thread starter
- #32
Wie is not close to being comparable to Tiger. That's laughable.
2left
"It's all ballbearings."
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My point, exactly. But airheads can be lovable, while b!tches mostly are not. I think she's the former.
- Thread starter
- #34
Lovable for maybe 5 minutes.
At least the "other" kind of girl keeps things interesting. :act-up:
SeeMoreGuy
They Make 'em. I Buy 'em.
I listen to her explanation for a few minutes but was so unimpressed with her attempts to try to get out of it. I guess I turned the TV off when she said something like I was thinking about my white skirt I had on...eluding to not wanting to get it dirty. Of course I am paraphrasing, albeit a bit more coherent that she was doing. I just could not watch it anymore. She should stick solely to swinging the clubs and leave the other issues to her "handlers" or perhaps that should be "enablers".
Esox
New member
ClairefromClare
Give 'em Helen!
Diane would prefer skirt.
Esox
New member
ClairefromClare
Give 'em Helen!
Story of my life--second choice. :sad:
She definetly said skirt.......
- Admin
- #42
Skirt or Skort I don't know how she thought she was going to be able to talk her way out of that. She didn't even put enough pressure on the club when she grounded it to support her if she did feel like she was off balance. I respect her trying to stand her ground but you have to pick and choose your battles and I think this one just made her look foolish. I know it's a matter of principle, well that and 90K, but there was just no way she could possibly think anyone would buy her plea....that's my opinion at least.
mchepp
Looking forward to Spring
Judging by the comments in this thread, my opinion might be unpopular, but I feel that Wie was not treated fairly in this situation. The decision of whether or not she is out of balance is not the decision of the official. On that, I completely agree with her. I think it is not the place of the official to decide that, but the decision of the player. Wie should decide to penalize herself, or state that she was falling out of balance and put her club down to balance herself. If there is no TV camera following her around and no one saw it, then it would be her responsibility to penalize herself or not. Golf has always been up to the player to police themselves. I feel the officials were too aggressive with their position in the decision.
The officials seemed to have made up their mind and it was useless for her to discuss it with them. I also think that is not fair.
The officials seemed to have made up their mind and it was useless for her to discuss it with them. I also think that is not fair.
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
I finally got to see the video. There is no evidence to support her claim that she was losing her balance. She made the erroneous assumption that the ball had left the hazard and so she pulled another ditsy Wie stunt and let her club rest on the ground within the hazard. Had I been making the ruling, I'd have made the same decision.
She was in the wrong when she grounded the club in the hazard, and she was wrong to argue the point with the rules committee.
Two wrongs don't make a right, two wrongs make a Wie. :laughing:
She was in the wrong when she grounded the club in the hazard, and she was wrong to argue the point with the rules committee.
Two wrongs don't make a right, two wrongs make a Wie. :laughing:
mchepp
Looking forward to Spring
Fourputt, I am glad you have replied here. Let's just argue for a moment without the benefit of seeing her discussion with the rules official afterwords. Clearly she looked bad there and it really has no bearing on the rules discussion. I also think the rules official took the same opinion that you did, that she made a "ditsy" move and grounded her club. I think that the officials opinion of her influenced his decision of the ruling, which is my opinion is not fair.
How as an official can you decided if I the golfer did or didn't fall off balance? Isn't that my decision as the player? Why is the burden on me to prove that I was losing my balance, from a TV camera angle? It seems in this instance that it is guilty until proven innocent. I think the decision if I lost my balance is mine as the player and when notified that I grounded my club I should either call the penalty on myself or claim I was using it for balance. It should be my decision, not the official watching from a video camera.
Please note that this is for discussion and I think a fruitful one for all of us playing competitively.
How as an official can you decided if I the golfer did or didn't fall off balance? Isn't that my decision as the player? Why is the burden on me to prove that I was losing my balance, from a TV camera angle? It seems in this instance that it is guilty until proven innocent. I think the decision if I lost my balance is mine as the player and when notified that I grounded my club I should either call the penalty on myself or claim I was using it for balance. It should be my decision, not the official watching from a video camera.
Please note that this is for discussion and I think a fruitful one for all of us playing competitively.
- Thread starter
- #46
I think you need to be careful about accusing (or thinking) an official of having some negative bias or a vendetta of sorts, towards a player. Because I see absolutely no evidence of that in this case at all.
Because he had a "bad" opinion of Wie, that influenced his decision? I really doubt that. I really really doubt that.
As for an official coming in and making the call that a player didn't themselves, I don't know enough about how that works at the highest level. However, I would think it's one of the officials jobs. To make sure the rules are being followed, regardless if a golfer believes they did or didn't break any rules.
Even the golf channel announcers knew right away what Wie did. When they saw the replay for the first time, the woman announcer knew what she did. And I would say those announcers are favorably biased FOR Wie.
- Admin
- #47
Normally I would like to give Wie the benefit of the doubt but when you watch the video when she grounds the club she is barely even putting any pressure on it and she even moves it a bit and then it falls again. She is claiming she was using it to catch her balance but she never put any pressure on the club to help stabilize her if in fact she was trying to get her balance back. I think she was grasping at straws to save herself from the penalty but, in my opinion, she clearly grounded her club without any intention of trying to help her balance.
As I stated earlier, I appreciate her trying to plead her case and stand up for herself but in this instance but you have to pick your battles and this is one she probably shouldn't have fought. It's unfortunate, but instances like this will give her a bad rep with the rules officials and that is the last thing she would want.
mchepp
Looking forward to Spring
Alright, my last post on this topic. I don't want to seem argumentative.
I still argue, and it is only my opinion, that the determination of balance is by the player and theirs alone. Announcers, officials can offer their "opinion" but the determination can only be made by the person losing their balance. We all can have our own opinions, but I don't think the rules of golf should be governed by our opinions.
What separates golf from the other sports is that we call penalties on ourselves. Other sports are watched closely by referees and it is almost an art to get away with cheating, golf is not at all like that. In most cases it is the responsibility of the player to call the penalty on themselves. That is part of the honor of golf. Maybe I am a bit naive on this topic.
I think if I was playing Wie in a competition and this situation happened and I told her I just saw you ground your club, and she replied that she lost her balance, I would not have pursued the penalty any further. I would trust that was her honest assessment of the situation and even though it looked like she didn't lose her balance it is not my place to determine that.
For the record, if you ask my opinion she committed a penalty. It certainly appears she was disappointed to see it was in the hazard and in frustration dropped her club. It seemed that she realized it quickly and tried to pull the club up. But that is only my opinion of the situation. Could she have felt off balance, I cannot answer that with any certainty. She should have honor for the game that has made her all this money, and call the penalty on herself if she broke the rules.
- Admin
- #49
I disagree about your thoughts on the fact that balance can only be determined by the golfer. Look at gymnastics. Its the judges that determine it there. While golf is a sport that is OFTEN self penalizing, rules officials are in place to give penalties that are not self policed. I dont think that a bias made them penalize her. She committed a penalty because she thought the ball was out of the hazard. End of story. When it turned out it was not, she did not penalize herself as she should have, so the officials had no choice but to give her the penalty.
- Thread starter
- #50
I fully understand what you're saying and it's a noble take. I don't mean to argue either, but I must present the other side of the coin here.
My rebuttal is that w/ so much on the line, can we simply allow the players to police themselves? In a perfect, honest world, I would say yes. But, we know that even professional golfers aren't all angels and can either make mistakes or may try to get away w/ an infraction. So, to the question, I would say no. Officials are there for reasons. One of them has to be to make calls on a questionable act by a golfer during play.
How would you feel if you were playing a guy and he, whether either deliberately or by mistake, broke a rule and didn't penalize himself? What if that guy ended up beating you by a stroke or two? In a practice round, I wouldn't care. But, w/ something on the line, I wouldn't be too happy.
There are of course, no officials to "call" him on it. It's up to him to be honest about it and correctly take action against himself, if necessary. MOST of the time, we as golfers do it the right way. However, everyone knows someone that wouldn't be afraid to either bend the rules and/or break them to gain an advantage at some point during a round.
As amateurs, we have to live w/ that and deal w/ it by our own terms. Pro's shouldn't have to worry about that. They have officials there to call out infractions. If nothing else, I think just having officials present is a good reminder, of sorts, for each player to play by the rules and to penalize yourself accordingly when appropriate.
I know Wie probably thought she did no wrong in this case. I know Wie, w/ no officials present, wouldn't have called a penalty on herself. However, I think we all know she did commit an infraction, no matter if she meant to or not. So, it's a perfect example of why having an official make a ruling is important. The official looked at the evidence, found evidence for an infraction, and judged it accordingly. I don't think the official should be taking the word of the golfer as to what the golfer did or didn't do.
I know Wie says she never tried to "get out of anything", but that's hogwash. She did try to get out of it. I know that what she did didn't improve her lie, or give her any advantage, but nonetheless, she broke a rule.