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Rules question

Esox

Esox

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Watching the Kevin Na fiasco got me thinking. The rule states one option when a lie is unplayable is re-hitting from the spot of the first shot. If you hit your ball in the woods and hit a provisional because it might be lost, then find your ball in the woods but it's unplayable, can you use the provisional? Or do you have to go back and hit another shot because the provisional was hit in case the ball was lost? How can you re-hit from the original spot for an unplayable lie when you don't know the ball is unplayable until you find it and declare it unplayable?

Or can a provisional ball be multi-purpose in case a ball is either lost or unplayable? I'm wondering because you already have the provisional sitting somewhere, good or bad, and that would have a big influence on what decision you may make regarding the "unplayable" ball.

Does/do the question(s) make sense?

Kevin
 
I don't think you can play the provisional if you find the original ball. If it's unplayable, you take a drop or go back to the tee.

Where's fourputt when you need him? haha
 
I believe in this case you would be able to play your provisional, but dont quote me on that.
 
Wait Im a little confused, I dont recall balls that are deemed to be unplayable having to be replayed from the spot of the previous shot. I always thought it was nearest point of relief +1 penalty stroke.
 
Smallville said:
I don't think you can play the provisional if you find the original ball. If it's unplayable, you take a drop or go back to the tee.

Where's fourputt when you need him? haha
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That's what I'm thinking. For both.

Kevin
 
Hole~Out~1983 said:
Wait Im a little confused, I dont recall balls that are deemed to be unplayable having to be replayed from the spot of the previous shot. I always thought it was nearest point of relief +1 penalty stroke.
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Nope. Unplayable options are play from original spot, two club lengths no closer to the hole, or as far back as you want to go keeping the spot of the ball between you and the hole.

Kevin
 
Once you find your ball, your provisional is longer in play. So once you hit your provisional if you don't think your first ball will be playable you don't look for it. You are not forced to look for it, but if someone else finds it you must identify it. As you saw, no one in his group looked for the ball. I could be wrong, but don't think so.
 
Esox said:
Nope. Unplayable options are play from original spot, two club lengths no closer to the hole, or as far back as you want to go keeping the spot of the ball between you and the hole.

Kevin
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That's what I think the rules say too. I guess someone is going to have to look it up.
 
Esox said:
Nope. Unplayable options are play from original spot, two club lengths no closer to the hole, or as far back as you want to go keeping the spot of the ball between you and the hole.

Kevin
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From the original spot of the unplayable ball or the original spot of the shot that led to the unplayable ball?
 
Vegan702 said:
Once you find your ball, your provisional is longer in play. So once you hit your provisional if you don't think your first ball will be playable you don't look for it. You are not forced to look for it, but if someone else finds it you must identify it. As you saw, no one in his group looked for the ball. I could be wrong, but don't think so.
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That's why I'm thinking that even though you have a provisional sitting there, if you decide your best unplayable option is to hit from the original spot, you have to disregard the provisional and go back and hit again. The provisional can only be used for a lost or OB ball.

Hole~Out~1983 said:
From the original spot of the unplayable ball or the original spot of the shot that led to the unplayable ball?
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Two clubs lengths from the unplayable ball. The re-hit is done as close as possible to the spot of the original shot. I posted a link to the rule.

To be clear, I knew the options, but was curious if the provisional could possible be used if instead of being lost, your ball is found and unplayable.

Kevin
 
Hole~Out~1983 said:
Yeah so you can take the nearest point of relief from where the unplayable ball lies as long as it is directly behind the ball. You dont have to go back to the spot where you initially hit the shot.
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Edit. Misread your post. Yes, as long as you keep the ball directly between you and the hole. And it doesn't have to be nearest point. You can go back as far as you want. See Nicklaus at Firestone during a PGA Championship. One of the most famous pars ever made on a par five.

Kevin
 
Esox said:
Edit. Misread your post. Yes, as long as you keep the ball directly between you and the hole. And it doesn't have to be nearest point. You can go back as far as you want. See Nicklaus at Firestone during a PGA Championship. One of the most famous pars ever made on a par five.

Kevin
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I know it doesnt HAVE to be nearest relief rather its not forcing you back a required amount of distance.
 
Esox said:
That's why I'm thinking that even though you have a provisional sitting there, if you decide your best unplayable option is to hit from the original spot, you have to disregard the provisional and go back and hit again. The provisional can only be used for a lost or OB ball.



Two clubs lengths from the unplayable ball. The re-hit is done as close as possible to the spot of the original shot. I posted a link to the rule.

To be clear, I knew the options, but was curious if the provisional could possible be used if instead of being lost, your ball is found and unplayable.

Kevin
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Yeah if your ball is identified anywhere inside of the OB markers I dont believe your provisional is any longer an option.
 
Interesting though, the rule says you can drop as far back with no limit to distance. I am surprised it doesn't specify that it has to be in bounds, although I guess the other rule would come into play then also.
 
If you find the ball even if it is unplayable you have to play that ball. A provisional is only if you hit the ball out of bounds or lose your ball. So if you don't think your ball is going to be playable you may just want to not look too hard for your 1st ball if you have a good provisional out there. :D haha
 
Esox said:
Watching the Kevin Na fiasco got me thinking. The rule states one option when a lie is unplayable is re-hitting from the spot of the first shot. If you hit your ball in the woods and hit a provisional because it might be lost, then find your ball in the woods but it's unplayable, can you use the provisional? Or do you have to go back and hit another shot because the provisional was hit in case the ball was lost? How can you re-hit from the original spot for an unplayable lie when you don't know the ball is unplayable until you find it and declare it unplayable?

Or can a provisional ball be multi-purpose in case a ball is either lost or unplayable? I'm wondering because you already have the provisional sitting somewhere, good or bad, and that would have a big influence on what decision you may make regarding the "unplayable" ball.

Does/do the question(s) make sense?

Kevin
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No. If you locate and identify the original ball, then the provisional ball is abandoned.

The reasoning behind this stipulation is that the rules never give you an option of choosing between 2 balls in play. The original ball is in play until it is lost. It is not lost until either a 5 minute search time has elapsed, or the player has taken an action which takes the original ball out of play. The provisional ball is not the ball in play until one of these requirements has been met. When the original ball is found within 5 minutes, it is still in play and the player is required to abandon the provisional ball.

If the player had played the second ball without declaring it a provisional, then it would be the ball in play and the original ball would be lost, even if it was subsequently found to be playable. If, before finding the original ball, the player played a stroke at the provisional ball from a point at or closer to the hole than where the original ball was thought to be, then the original ball is deemed lost, and play continutes with the second ball, adding any necessary penalty strokes.

Hole~Out~1983 said:
Yeah so you can take the nearest point of relief from where the unplayable ball lies as long as it is directly behind the ball. You dont have to go back to the spot where you initially hit the shot.
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There is no "nearest point of relief" under Rule 28. That only applies to relief taken under Rule 24 or 25. For "Ball Unplayable" the 3 options have already been mentioned. Two clublengths from the point where the ball lies unplayable; back as far as you wish on a line drawn from the hole through the point were the ball lies unplayable (you must still play from a point on the course, i.e. you cannot go out of bounds); or play again from the point where you played the previous stroke. Under all of these options you add a penalty stroke, and the point where the player drops can never be closer to the hole than where the original ball lay unplayable unless that is the point where the previous stroke was made.
 
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Seems like, minus the in-depth explanation, we got this one right. Thanks Fourputt.
 
Smallville said:
Seems like, minus the in-depth explanation, we got this one right. Thanks Fourputt.
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We're fairly sharp. but it always pays to check with a rules official. LOL.

Kevin
 
Man and I thought my 10 was bad on #2 yesterday lol
 
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