optimum #'s when fitting clubs

[juicegoose]

Yesterday while getting some clubs fit the fitter spoke about some numbers that they typically look for when fitting a set of irons. One example was spin. He stated that typically you want a multiple of 1000 x the number of the club(6 iron = 6k rpm) It's not a hard set rule but usually gives them something to go by.

Can any of you fitters out there shed some light as to the numbers someone should look at in a club they are trying out?

If i were to go to Golfsmith and like the way a club feels. What numbers should I look at on the launch monitor?

Thanks.

 

[TC]

When I get back to a CPU I have some charts I can share that might help.

 

[TC]

Ok, so here's something that should be a decent baseline. I know it's PGA and LPGA Tour averages, but aren't we all striving for their game? :bulgy-eyes:

 

[wenpinow]

Thanks for the charts! Speaking for myself (41 this year), it is quite the revelation as I've always thought myself to be average when it comes to distance (as compared to the 115mph 295+ yards swingers here). Good to know that I'm only one full club behind the the tour average and can out hit most of the LPGA pros. Just have to concentrate on sharpening my short game this summer. :banana:

 

[JK]

OK, TC I gotta ask something (or anyone) after seeing this chart a few times now. When I got fit for my i20s, I had a smash factor with the 7i of about 1.40 (on three different demo days) - if I recall somewhere around 81mph SS and 113mph BS. If I understnad right, smash factor is basically how efficiently you hit it (i.e., how "pure" you hit it). This chart suggests, therefore, I was hitting it more efficently than the average pro. Now, my game is OK, but obviously nowhere in that league, so I was really scratching my head when I saw this chart. What gives? My first thought is questioning how accurate the Trackman is...

Ok, so here's something that should be a decent baseline. I know it's PGA and LPGA Tour averages, but aren't we all striving for their game? :bulgy-eyes:

 

[TC]

I really don't know JK. I don't even know what my smash factor is. Locally, I get on a vector and I don't get that data off of it. I'm a launch, spin and ball speed guy.

 

[JR]

At least I can say I hit it as far as the best women in the world.

 

[Golf Ghost]

From what I understand. Smash factor is basically how effectively you turn clubhead speed into ball speed.

http://www.gaspsystems.com/blog/?p=288

Pretty good little write up about it, with a few examples.

 

[arydolphin]

OK, TC I gotta ask something (or anyone) after seeing this chart a few times now. When I got fit for my i20s, I had a smash factor with the 7i of about 1.40 (on three different demo days) - if I recall somewhere around 81mph SS and 113mph BS. If I understnad right, smash factor is basically how efficiently you hit it (i.e., how "pure" you hit it). This chart suggests, therefore, I was hitting it more efficently than the average pro. Now, my game is OK, but obviously nowhere in that league, so I was really scratching my head when I saw this chart. What gives? My first thought is questioning how accurate the Trackman is...

Trackman is really accurate, in my experience with it. I'm not sure what your other numbers are, but you could be delofting the club pretty well in your swing to give you numbers like that However, that's just a guess on my part. You also have to realize that those numbers are averages, so some pros are going to be less efficient and others will be more efficient. I wish I was more efficient, I'm at around 1.34 or so for my 6 iron.

FYI, smash factor = ball speed divided by club head speed. Also, most amateurs will not hit down on the ball as much as pros, which will lead to higher launch angles overall as well as reduced ball speed.

 

[capt.dru]

Don't mean to hijack this thread but my average SS is 93mph but yet my average distance is 250-275yrd with an occasional 290-300yrd shot. Shouldn't I be getting less distance according to this chart?

 

[arydolphin]

Don't mean to hijack this thread but my average SS is 93mph but yet my average distance is 250-275yrd with an occasional 290-300yrd shot. Shouldn't I be getting less distance according to this chart?

How many yards of roll are you getting on those drives, about 60 or so? If you have an average driver SS of 93 mph, then your optimal carry is around 230 yards with the driver.

 

[capt.dru]

I forgot about roll. Those are my total distance numbers. I guess I would be getting that much roll. The fairways have been a bit hard lately. Is that much roll good or bad? I am a newbie at this fitting stuff and I am trying to analyze the data I have so far.

 

[the_paulo]

What you've got to remember when looking at the charts and thinking about 'optimal' numbers, is that when one of those numbers changes, they'll all change - making the end result sometimes vastly different.

I'd advise most of us to be looking at the LPGA averages when striving for numbers to compare to our own game. When I'm thinking about it, I don't know if there's such a thing as 'optimal' when considering your own swing (unless you have a more repeatable swing than the majority of tour players). What you should be aiming for, and what the LPGA girls manage very well, is 'more efficient'.

 

[emanthei]

Very cool chart TC. That is actually quite a beneficial tool to study before you go into a fitting for yourself. I am happy to say that my average distances match up almost exactly as the pros do. Now if I could just learn how to not 3 putt!! lol

 

[Custom Method]

I forgot about roll. Those are my total distance numbers. I guess I would be getting that much roll. The fairways have been a bit hard lately. Is that much roll good or bad? I am a newbie at this fitting stuff and I am trying to analyze the data I have so far.

Heck I wouldn't be worrying wheter or not getting the ball out to 270 is a problem or not.

 

[juicegoose]

Okay okay I have to backtrack here. When I went Tuesday to get fitted for a new set of irons on trackman Other then talking about the numbers I didn't get a print out or anything. I talked about what I was looking for in a club. Hit on the trackman on an indoor bay and then we brought a couple finalist outdoors and hit them. Is that typical for a club fitting? Especially for 100 bucks? I would assume that if I were to buy a set from them that when they came in we would get on the trackman and get some solid numbers but I guess i was thinking that I would have gotten more for the money ya know.
Also it was my understanding the Trackman was an outdoor monitor that actually recorded ball flight and such. Naturally indoors this isn't possible and the tech told me that some numbers were actual and others were guesses. does it change for outdoor fittings on trackman?

 

[arydolphin]

I forgot about roll. Those are my total distance numbers. I guess I would be getting that much roll. The fairways have been a bit hard lately. Is that much roll good or bad? I am a newbie at this fitting stuff and I am trying to analyze the data I have so far.

Roll isn't a bad thing, it's just that it's not consistent. Of course, places that have firm turf are going to give you more roll, like Texas where you live. On the other hand, the turf tends to be soft up here, so I don't get much roll off of my drives, so I like to try to maximize carry distance with my driver.

One other thing: distance is directly related to ball speed, and the closer that you hit the ball to the sweetspot, your ball speed will go up. So a person can swing at 100 mph but make off-center contact and only have 140 mph ball speed, but then swing more in control at 97 mph and get 145 mph ball speed. Guess what, the slower swing will result in a longer drive because the ball speed is higher. Concentrate on hitting the ball in the middle of the club face, and your numbers will go up.

 

[arydolphin]

Okay okay I have to backtrack here. When I went Tuesday to get fitted for a new set of irons on trackman Other then talking about the numbers I didn't get a print out or anything. I talked about what I was looking for in a club. Hit on the trackman on an indoor bay and then we brought a couple finalist outdoors and hit them. Is that typical for a club fitting? Especially for 100 bucks? I would assume that if I were to buy a set from them that when they came in we would get on the trackman and get some solid numbers but I guess i was thinking that I would have gotten more for the money ya know.
Also it was my understanding the Trackman was an outdoor monitor that actually recorded ball flight and such. Naturally indoors this isn't possible and the tech told me that some numbers were actual and others were guesses. does it change for outdoor fittings on trackman?

You can use Trackman indoors or outdoors. I've been on it indoors, and the only thing that needs to be calculated is the overall distance and flight of the ball. The numbers like ball speed, spin, club path and face angle all come from how you are actually hitting the ball, and are not calculated. When you take it outside, you can have it track the actual flight of your ball, or you can set it up to give you numbers for normal conditions. What I mean by that is that if you go out on a range and it's 50 degrees and the wind is blowing 15 mph into you, you can set up the Trackman to give you simulated numbers for 70 degrees and no wind based on how you hit the ball. What I'm thinking is that they used the Trackman indoors to get you into clubs that would give you good numbers, and then took you outside so that you could see the ballflight to verify the indoor numbers. Hitting outdoors is good in a fitting because people like to see the ballflight that they're going to get, and some people swing differently indoors as compared to outdoors. Also, hitting outdoors on grass allows you to determine turf interaction with irons, which is always important.

 

[juicegoose]

You can use Trackman indoors or outdoors. I've been on it indoors, and the only thing that needs to be calculated is the overall distance and flight of the ball. The numbers like ball speed, spin, club path and face angle all come from how you are actually hitting the ball, and are not calculated. When you take it outside, you can have it track the actual flight of your ball, or you can set it up to give you numbers for normal conditions. What I mean by that is that if you go out on a range and it's 50 degrees and the wind is blowing 15 mph into you, you can set up the Trackman to give you simulated numbers for 70 degrees and no wind based on how you hit the ball. What I'm thinking is that they used the Trackman indoors to get you into clubs that would give you good numbers, and then took you outside so that you could see the ballflight to verify the indoor numbers. Hitting outdoors is good in a fitting because people like to see the ballflight that they're going to get, and some people swing differently indoors as compared to outdoors. Also, hitting outdoors on grass allows you to determine turf interaction with irons, which is always important.

Buddy I can tell you that I had some turf interaction going on with the Mizuno MP-63 and the Titliest AP2. Note to self never go for a club fitting after a 10 hour workday, 2 mile run, and small bucket of balls.

 

[capt.dru]

Roll isn't a bad thing, it's just that it's not consistent. Of course, places that have firm turf are going to give you more roll, like Texas where you live. On the other hand, the turf tends to be soft up here, so I don't get much roll off of my drives, so I like to try to maximize carry distance with my driver.

One other thing: distance is directly related to ball speed, and the closer that you hit the ball to the sweetspot, your ball speed will go up. So a person can swing at 100 mph but make off-center contact and only have 140 mph ball speed, but then swing more in control at 97 mph and get 145 mph ball speed. Guess what, the slower swing will result in a longer drive because the ball speed is higher. Concentrate on hitting the ball in the middle of the club face, and your numbers will go up.

This makes a lot of sense. I can swing in the hundreds but rarely do I ever hit the ball well and it does not go as far. But when I slow my swing down into the low 90's that's where I get the best results. I always have someone say how do you hit the ball so far with a slow swing speed. Now I can tell them this. Thanks for the info.