Hip Rotation

[sherwoodnatl]

A question about the golfswing. Ive had some trouble lately with rotating my hips to fast on the downswing which causes my shots generally push to the right It happens with all clubs except wedges and putting.

I was wondering what would be a drill toget the correct hip rotation (or just correct my issue) on iron and wood shots?

 

[amollerud]

That is an interesting question. Are the shots high and right? I would work on getting the body back in sync. Next time you are out at the range I would hit some shots with my feet together. This will slow any hip and lower body issues. Get a feel for how and where things are moving. Let me know if that helps or you need more.

 

[Jesse V]

In the downswing do the hips move forward laterally before they begin to rotate? Or as part of initiating the downswing do the hips move forward laterally as a result of the weight shift from the back leg to the lead leg then begin to rotate. Kind of the same question twice, I'm just trying to get the correct sequence. Many advocate a slide or bump forward with the hips to begin the downswing, while others seem to think that when you rotate the hips, turn your belt buckle back to the ball, that begins the down swing.

 

[amollerud]

Great question here. There is a bit of lateral movement of the hips at the start of the down swing, but as they start to move forward you better start driving your left hip back (right handed players). Most golfers that I work with tend to move lateral and don't turn. This is every bit as harmful as a sway backwards.

 

[Jesse V]

Great question here. There is a bit of lateral movement of the hips at the start of the down swing, but as they start to move forward you better start driving your left hip back (right handed players). Most golfers that I work with tend to move lateral and don't turn. This is every bit as harmful as a sway backwards.

I've always struggled with this... If I bump to far forward my shots don't work out as planned, usually thin shots or I have to manipulate the hands too much, if I don't move forward laterally at all I hit fat shots, come over the top or get stuck on my back leg. Its great to hear how its supposed to be done.

Should one think in terms of moving the belt buckle just ahead of the ball, or, back to the ball? As I understand it the lateral move forward to the lead leg should only be about an inch or so. Of course trying to get that technical could also destroy a swing.

 

[jnug]

What did one of the guys that had one of the half hour segments on the Golf channel say about the hip turn? I think he tried to liken to a coiling of the hips as a means of trying to get the audience to understand the action they should try to find.

I really like the way Andy describes it. He has repeated it above in this thread i think. He describes it as the left side or the left hip firing back (back meaning toward your rear end or behind you, not back as in toward your right side for a right hander).

I have asked Andy in the past about using something of a trigger to get the hips firing. in my case I point my left knee in the direction of the target and that keeps me from sliding my hips. In my case I fire my hips directly after pointing my knee, almost simultaneously. In two separate shows on the golf channel both Tom Leyman and Harrington talked about pointing the left knee as a trigger. That is where I got it from. I feel like it helps me because I feel like there is no way I can slide my hips from that position. Anyway whether with or without a trigger, Andy's method of describing how you want the hip action to feel is the best description I have ever heard. It really helped me as that is now how I think about firing my hips, bumping the left hip back in the direction of my rear end. I do think the idea of coiling helps as well because it sort of supports the idea that you are really going to bump your left hip toward your rear end. So during the backswing you kind of coiled your hips clockwise looking down from above you and bumping your left hip back toward your rear end uncoils your hips counterclockwise at the start of the downswing.

To me the best golf instructors describe things in a way that allows the audience to finally get it. They are for the most part trying to get us to adopt the same action. They all have different ways of describing it. That is what I really like about Andy's way of describing it. At least for me, I finally got it.

In my case as well if I find myself making a conscious effort to make some lateral move forward it is because I have swayed back in the backswing and I am trying to recover from it. The sway back turns out to be a very subtle thing that is hard to pick up when you are doing it. It took a long time for me to cure myself of the sway back. It was difficult for me to separate the weight transfer from a sway back in the backswing followed by a lateral move forward in the downswing. A dead giveaway for the sway back is your weight getting onto the outside of the your back foot in the backswing. If you get to the top and find that even a little of your weight has gotten to the outside of your back foot I can just about guarantee you that you are swaying back in your backswing. Your weight (none of it) must not get past the inside of your back foot in the backswing.

 

[Jesse V]

Put together with Andy's response I think I get the picture. Still somewhat confused as Martin Hall said something about a slide of the hips. Maybe as you point out, that is what I feel and is my trigger even though the hips shouldn't actually slide forward. Just practicing what you and Andy said, when I fire the hip back or towards my rear end, to me it feels as if there is just a tiny bit of a slide. Probably a feeling that I have and could be my trigger if I'm doing correctly.

 

[jnug]

Andy should chime in again when he gets a chance but I would bet what you are describing would be fine because you are not making a conscience effort to make a lateral move forward. It sounds more like you are feeling something that is a consequence of firing your hips. That actually does not even sound to me like something that is extraordinary when you think about the position you are in as you fire your hips. I little bit of a slide feeling is probably hard to avoid in some cases. But heck I see some people swing that are struggling with this and their "turn" is all slide and no fire!

By the way, I am glad Hall won the shoot out and got the show. I liked him the best and I hope his show turns out to be a good one for us and for him.

 

[Jesse V]

My turn used to be all slide and very little turn. I had a bad over the top move when I first started an instructor had me start bumping the left hip forward, I'm RH. As my swing improved and I was able to somewhat correct my over the top move I've struggled because of the bump forward. I couldn't find anyone else who actually promoted sliding, or bumping the lead hip forward. Nothing I read advocated a consicious effort to bump forward. When practicing or playing a round if my timing was good that day I could hit some good shots or shoot in the low 80's and all was good. If timing was off a little, well, as you may can guess I didn't have much fun, I can be wildly inconsistent on a day to day basis.

Now I feel more confident that my work on eliminating the slide is the right direction I should have been moving in all along. Thanks for the help and the comments!

I like Martin Hall as well, he's a good instructor and he has lots of great stories to tell.

 

[amollerud]

Jesse V try this to get the feel of a post and a clear with the hips. Get into your setup position with the back of a chair behind you so the top of the back just barely touches your backside. As you swing to the top keep your right side on the chair (right handed players) in the down swing feel your left side fire back to maintain contact with the chair. This will get your hips moving through impact. Try this out and let me know how things go.

 

[Helo]

I can't think about rotating hips on downswing, it messes me up. I found just focusing on weight shift to left foot gets my hips around okay without too much conscious thought.

In the downswing do the hips move forward laterally before they begin to rotate? Or as part of initiating the downswing do the hips move forward laterally as a result of the weight shift from the back leg to the lead leg then begin to rotate. Kind of the same question twice, I'm just trying to get the correct sequence. Many advocate a slide or bump forward with the hips to begin the downswing, while others seem to think that when you rotate the hips, turn your belt buckle back to the ball, that begins the down swing.

 

[Jesse V]

I was reading Harvey Penick's Little Red Book - He says to concentrate on the weight shift from the back leg to your front leg. If you can accomplish that with some regularity you will hit good shots on a consistent basis. Also Bobby Jones talks about hip rotation being a cornerstone of hitting consistent shots. I believe these two factors probably go hand in hand, a consistent weight shift along with consistent hip rotation will provide for a more repeatable swing and better play.

Now, how does one go about drilling this in to my head? If I knew that I'd be a much more consistent ball striker and my HC would be lower. Of course when I hit the green in regulation and take 6 putts to get down, ain't nothing can help that! :messed:

 

[amollerud]

The way to make it more automatic is just like any other area in the golf game. Practice with a purpose. Work the drills in slow motion and add speed as you are able to maintain what you are working on. Change takes time and effort. I know that nobody wants to hear it, but a true swing change takes a LONG TIME. Keep working on the areas that need the work and you WILL see results.

 

[All4's]

This is going to be specific to the type of swing you have or are working to have. Different swing patterns have differing levels of hip turn and release. Some limit turn going back, some promote it. I'd suggest looking for images or swing thoughts specific to the style of swing your are working on. Otherwise you may be getting advice that works for that person's swing type but not the type you are employing.

Can you tell me more about what type of swing you are working on? By type I mean S&T vs TGM vs MORAD vs Foley's CS vs Manzella's SDP vs etc. If you can tell me which methodology you are trying I can point you to some resources that will help. What player or teacher's style are you using as a model?

If you have not adopted any particular swing concept I'd suggest you do so. IMHO picking one that matches well with your natural swing shape and tempo and then nailing down the principles & components of that swing is the most effective way to approach swing learning and improvement. Otherwise you are likely to be piecing together random components that may very well be contradictory. Like Harvey Penick said, "take dead aim" and this means how you practice/swing too. Don't allow randomness to derail you. Be specific in your motions and intent.

 

[Jesse V]

As for me, I'm studying the Swing Machine Golf philosophy. Relaxed arms and using the body to power the swing, which focuses on hip rotation to begin the down swing instead of a lateral forward movement, or bump as some may call it. I used to be an all arms swinger, then I became an arm swinger with a severe forward lateral shift, bump, to begin my down swing. I could play OK but was wildly inconsistent, one day great, next day couldn't hit the side of a barn with a bazooka, played a lot of army golf.

Now I'm working on a solid, fluid rotation of the hips to begin the downswing. As for me I still feel as if, when my weight shift occurs and the hips start rotating that there is still some sort of a forward shift, or bump, however, this may just be in my head and not what is truly happening. Nothing like what it was! Still, I like how Hogan uses his lower body to start and power the swing. What Hogan does to start the downswing is something similar to what I am trying to do. Just wish I could hit a thousand balls a day to really drive home the work I'm doing! The box stores are getting tired of me being in there for two or three hours a day hitting their balls.

You are so correct, any swing change takes time and practice. I've had a lot of time on my hands lately so I've been working on the downswing transition by starting my swing from the ground up, weight shift from back leg to forward, then hip rotation.

I've found with the Swing Machine Golf philosophy that my body is taking less of a beating from swingfing the club, I've had 3 back surgeries and am always concerned about this apsect of my life and how the golf swing effects my back. I'm finding that my swing motion is becoming more fluid and actually feels more like what a real swing should feel like. Effortless power. Now don't get me wrong, I've lost some distance and club head speed but thats made up by the fact that I'm gaining more accuracy and better consistency. I'm not advocating swing machine golf, I just like the thought of an effortless swing which I do beleive this philosophy teaches. I still haven't taken any of it to the course yet, my new sticks should be here this weekend and I hope to get out and play next week as the weather is supposed to be great. We'll see how I hold up then. Still, time for more and more practice! :golf2: