High Loft Driver with a Lower Launch Shaft: What are the advantages?

[DufferToo]

Until I joined THP, I have been content in playing golf with whatever regular flex shaft that came with the club. Now that I am aware of the potential improvement that a shaft change can make, I am attempting to increase my knowledge in this area.

There have been a few posts in various threads about matching a higher loft (up to/including 13*) drivers with lower launching shafts. For someone, such as myself, with a sub 100 swing speed that would normally use a higher lofted driver I can see where this makes sense. The combination should provide a mid level ball flight with some increase in distance. However, what advantage is there for those that play stiff or x-stiff and can play 9* drivers? Doesn't an increase in loft also increase spin which would reduce distance?

Thanks for assisting the "equip-mentally" challanged.

 

[blugold]

I went from an Adams Fast 12 9.5* with a grafalloy prolaunch blue. Low loft head with a high launch shaft to the Nike Covert Tour set at 12.5*. And it is so much better.

Almost every amateur could use a higher lofted driver. But ego says low loft. Ego is wrong.

 

[jimnycricket65]

Interested in following this thread...

 

[Hole-N-7]

There is a divide between what theoretically will work for one person but not another.

I think it is a great idea for slow swing speed guys in particular to utilize higher loft heads and try to optimize their spin through shaft selection and head settings or design.

On the other hand, the shaft's ability to control spin for a lot of people is pretty limited. If you read much of Tom Wishon's work he preaches that unless you have a real late/aggressive release, a lot of the "spin" characteristics of a shaft are lost.

I myself am not a super high swing speed guy, yet because of my aggressive transition and ultra late release, I tend to impose a high dynamic loft number at impact. This results in high launching, high spinning shots, even with relatively low lofted heads. Despite trying to smooth myself out, I haven't gotten rid of this tendency, thus I seem to find that lower lofted drivers in conjunction with low spin/low launch shafts work to bring the spin and launch down to more ideal levels. If I used any head at 12.5* with any shaft on earth it wouldn't work for ME.

This is one of the reasons I will be bagging a Covert Tour this season. The low launch low spin tendency of this head works perfect for the way I swing. I have paired it with a Matrix 7M3 and also have an Attas3 coming as well for the wetter months. Good showdown.

Long story short, there is no right answer for everyone, just generalities. I know the most overused saying on golf message boards is that you should get fitted, but it really is the truth. Golf can be such a counterintuitive game both from the mechanical side and the equipment side that it's best to find out for yourself rather than rely on speculation or others' advice to make decisions. A good driver fitting may teach you a lot about your swing, your needs, and what types and kinds of equipment fit you the best.

 

[DufferToo]

I went from an Adams Fast 12 9.5* with a grafalloy prolaunch blue. Low loft head with a high launch shaft to the Nike Covert Tour set at 12.5*. And it is so much better.

Almost every amateur could use a higher lofted driver. But ego says low loft. Ego is wrong.

I concur, I would prefer results vs ego. My FT-iq is 11* and I am considering an FT-iz that is 13*. The only hang-up is that I hit the fairway every time with my FT-iq and "if it aint broke..."

 

[blugold]

I concur, I would prefer results vs ego. My FT-iq is 11* and I am considering an FT-iz that is 13*. The only hang-up is that I hit the fairway every time with my FT-iq and "if it aint broke..."

What if it ain't broke, but farther down the fairway? It is possible that you could get even better results with the high loft. Higher loft, higher launch. Launch creates carry, swing mechanics create roll.

 

[DufferToo]

What if it ain't broke, but farther down the fairway? It is possible that you could get even better results with the high loft. Higher loft, higher launch. Launch creates carry, swing mechanics create roll.

Wouldn't the higher loft mid or low launch give more distance (thinking trajectory) then high loft high launch? Or does my low swing speed negate any advantage?

Blu I started this thread trying to figure out why high swing speed guys would use a high loft driver and you are going to cause me to buy another driver if I'm not careful.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[blugold]

Wouldn't the higher loft mid or low launch give more distance (thinking trajectory) then high loft high launch? Or does my low swing speed negate any advantage?

Blu I started this thread trying to figure out why high swing speed guys would use a high loft driver and you are going to cause me to buy another driver if I'm not careful.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Just think of it this way. What is going to stay in the air longer. A ball launched off a 9.5* face, or a ball launched off a 11.5* face. There are things to assume, but generally speaking, a high loft should stay in the air longer, thus carry farther. There is a point when that stops being the case, I understand that.

Dustin Johnson and Rory are pretty long hitters. They both have driver lofts above 10*.

 

[toughestsoldier]

I know that loft is your friend so I would recommend a high loft low angle shaft. I know somebody will correct me if im wrong but i would assume that the higher loft club would create more backspin so you would want a lower angle to negate any possibility to balloon.

 

[DufferToo]

There is a divide between what theoretically will work for one person but not another.

I think it is a great idea for slow swing speed guys in particular to utilize higher loft heads and try to optimize their spin through shaft selection and head settings or design.

On the other hand, the shaft's ability to control spin for a lot of people is pretty limited. If you read much of Tom Wishon's work he preaches that unless you have a real late/aggressive release, a lot of the "spin" characteristics of a shaft are lost.

I myself am not a super high swing speed guy, yet because of my aggressive transition and ultra late release, I tend to impose a high dynamic loft number at impact. This results in high launching, high spinning shots, even with relatively low lofted heads. Despite trying to smooth myself out, I haven't gotten rid of this tendency, thus I seem to find that lower lofted drivers in conjunction with low spin/low launch shafts work to bring the spin and launch down to more ideal levels. If I used any head at 12.5* with any shaft on earth it wouldn't work for ME.

This is one of the reasons I will be bagging a Covert Tour this season. The low launch low spin tendency of this head works perfect for the way I swing. I have paired it with a Matrix 7M3 and also have an Attas3 coming as well for the wetter months. Good showdown.

Long story short, there is no right answer for everyone, just generalities. I know the most overused saying on golf message boards is that you should get fitted, but it really is the truth. Golf can be such a counterintuitive game both from the mechanical side and the equipment side that it's best to find out for yourself rather than rely on speculation or others' advice to make decisions. A good driver fitting may teach you a lot about your swing, your needs, and what types and kinds of equipment fit you the best.

Hole-N-7,

Yes there usually is a big difference between theory and reality in this game. After all hitting a stationary ball, in theory, should be easy.
I agree that properly fit clubs are one of the best investments that a golfer can make, next to lessons.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dance_Business]

If memory serves, higher loft = a bit more back spin = straighter shots Think in terms of why you may hook or slice a 5 iron but rarely a PW.

 

[arydolphin]

Just think of it this way. What is going to stay in the air longer. A ball launched off a 9.5* face, or a ball launched off a 11.5* face. There are things to assume, but generally speaking, a high loft should stay in the air longer, thus carry farther. There is a point when that stops being the case, I understand that.

Dustin Johnson and Rory are pretty long hitters. They both have driver lofts above 10*.

The point that blugold refers to is when the spin rate with the high launch gets too high and the ball upshoots (for lack of a better word) into the air due to the backspin.

When it comes to drivers, the loft of the club has much more of an impact on the launch angle as opposed to the shaft characteristics. Use the loft on the club to get into a generally accepted range of launch and ball speed numbers, then use the shaft to fine tune those numbers as well as spin rate. The higher your ball speed is, the lower the launch angle can be and still give you maximum distance.

 

[Speedliner]

Don't forget angle of attack. That impacts relative loft and launch considerably.

 

[hokiegolfer]

If memory serves, higher loft = a bit more back spin = straighter shots Think in terms of why you may hook or slice a 5 iron but rarely a PW.

This is my thought process. When I am in the market for a driver again, I will certainly get fitted but my preference will be something a little more lofted to help with my slicing

 

[blugold]

The point that blugold refers to is when the spin rate with the high launch gets too high and the ball upshoots (for lack of a better word) into the air due to the backspin.

When it comes to drivers, the loft of the club has much more of an impact on the launch angle as opposed to the shaft characteristics. Use the loft on the club to get into a generally accepted range of launch and ball speed numbers, then use the shaft to fine tune those numbers as well as spin rate. The higher your ball speed is, the lower the launch angle can be and still give you maximum distance.

Ary is pretty smart.

 

[DufferToo]

The point that blugold refers to is when the spin rate with the high launch gets too high and the ball upshoots (for lack of a better word) into the air due to the backspin.

When it comes to drivers, the loft of the club has much more of an impact on the launch angle as opposed to the shaft characteristics. Use the loft on the club to get into a generally accepted range of launch and ball speed numbers, then use the shaft to fine tune those numbers as well as spin rate. The higher your ball speed is, the lower the launch angle can be and still give you maximum distance.

Ary,

I understand why a regular flex guy such as myself would use a higher lofted driver since I frankly don't generate the swing speed necessary to use a low lofted driver effectively. However, why would someone with a high swing speed use a high lofted driver? As Blugold mentioned, Rory uses a higher lofted driver and unless I'm mistaken he generates decent ball speed.

Thanks everyone for responding, I appreciate the opportunity to learn.

 

[arydolphin]

Ary,

I understand why a regular flex guy such as myself would use a higher lofted driver since I frankly don't generate the swing speed necessary to use a low lofted driver effectively. However, why would someone with a high swing speed use a high lofted driver? As Blugold mentioned, Rory uses a higher lofted driver and unless I'm mistaken he generates decent ball speed.

Thanks everyone for responding, I appreciate the opportunity to learn.

For some of the tour guys, they prefer to not change their swing as much for the driver as compared to the irons, so they actually hit down on the ball when using the driver. Tour average from stats published a few years ago showed that the tour average was just over a degree downward. So with that, some of the Tour guys will use higher lofts to counteract hitting down on the ball. Also couple that with the trend for drivers overall to become lower spin models, and some people with higher swing speeds can go to a higher loft and not generate huge spin numbers.

Swing speed is not the only factor in terms of what shaft or head you will fit in to, how you deliver the club to the ball (hitting up vs hitting down, adding spin by cutting across the ball, etc.) also plays into it.

 

[DufferToo]

For some of the tour guys, they prefer to not change their swing as much for the driver as compared to the irons, so they actually hit down on the ball when using the driver. Tour average from stats published a few years ago showed that the tour average was just over a degree downward. So with that, some of the Tour guys will use higher lofts to counteract hitting down on the ball. Also couple that with the trend for drivers overall to become lower spin models, and some people with higher swing speeds can go to a higher loft and not generate huge spin numbers.

Swing speed is not the only factor in terms of what shaft or head you will fit in to, how you deliver the club to the ball (hitting up vs hitting down, adding spin by cutting across the ball, etc.) also plays into it.

Ary,
Thank you for clearing up that misconception for me.

Hole-N-7,
Your point about transition tempo being a factor in shaft selection is also something that I have never thought of either.

 

[toughestsoldier]

When I go into to get fitted they figure my launch angle and just adjust my club loft from there. Quite frankly it doesnt matter what my swing speed is but rather just the launch angle.

 

[bobcat]

There is another driver characteristic involved here that needs to be discusseed:

About 10 years ago, I discoverd that there were certain very special driver clubheads that are just so much hotter, so much more penetrating in terms of trajectory, than any of the "nomal" OEM Retail drivers, or even other Tour-issued drivers. I also found that the ballflight produced by these special drivers had less to do with loft, and more to do with a the driver's higher than normal center of gravity, (COG). I assumed this trait would be limited to Tour-issued drivers and would not likely ever be available in a retail head.

I first became aware of the "High COG effect" with the TaylorMade R500 Tour Driver, a small head by today's standards, (just 325cc). That particular head has a very unique penetrating trajectory even in its highest 10.5* loft. Futhermore, this hotter, more penetrating trajectory persists even with higher-launching shafts.

I immediately became addicted to the R500 Tour, and since bagging it I have hit many other drivers, both Retail and Tour issue, but none were ever capable of the producing the same penetrating trajectory, so the R500 Tour stayed in the bag, year after year. Now granted, a high-COG driver is not suited for everyone of course, but for me, a high-COG driver produces the best results.

Finally something has come along to change that! At long last, I have found a brand new driver that actually does possess the unique high-COG penetrating launch that I love. I won't reveal it's identity quite yet because I am currently testing it in various lofts, to see which one will go in the bag, but I have seen enough to know it is has the "magic" high-COG trajectory that I crave.

Unfortunately, high COG driver heads are so very rare these days because it seems all the OEM's feel they must keep lowering the COG of today's huge drivers to make them ever easier to hit. Tis a real pity for those of us who aren't so "launch challenged".

I had actually noticed my new favorite driver awhile back, but initially dismissed it in favor of another deepfaced model that fit my eye a bit better. That one I chose at the time was capable of long drives, and was very solid-feeling like my beloved R500 Tour, but it still lacked that unique high-COG "magic" trajectory. I had pretty much decided that I what I craved was no longer being produced by any OEM. Thank goodness I finally did get around to hitting the driver I had initially passed on.

Stay tuned for more! The reveal is coming...I have not been this excited about a driver in years! There is a new "gamer" for me in town now!

:banana:

 

[ddec]

I'm interested to get an adjustable driver like the AMP Cell where I can really tinker with lofts. Right now my LA is pretty high between 15-19 and Spin is killing me. I'm sure pretty much all of that is me and not the club. So I'm really hoping to get on a LM in the near future when I get my swing back to form and seeing what the difference in those numbers will be. Last year I thought about grabbing a Razr Fit in 11.5 and pairing it with a Kusala Black. I thought that would be a good combo, but alas I held off.

 

[sleuth]

Ary,

I understand why a regular flex guy such as myself would use a higher lofted driver since I frankly don't generate the swing speed necessary to use a low lofted driver effectively. However, why would someone with a high swing speed use a high lofted driver? As Blugold mentioned, Rory uses a higher lofted driver and unless I'm mistaken he generates decent ball speed.

Thanks everyone for responding, I appreciate the opportunity to learn.

Nick Watney used to play 11.5*-12* driver a couple years back. Not sure if he still is, but it could be a few reasons for this such as mechanics. Maybe he delofts the club at impact?

At any rate, I like the idea of higher loft, lower launch shaft. Also consider that loft has more impact on backspin then anything else. So it'll just require a lot of testing with your swing and finding the right combo. With the amount of shafts available and various clubheads, I think this can be accomplished. It'll just take you some time.