High launch + high spin with the driver

[ryebread]

My driving has just been all over the map over the last year. I think I'll get it fixed and then it goes away again. I'm not a long player, due to a fairly short turn and low club head speed (about 85 with the driver), but I'm still not maximizing what I have.

I'm also self taught for the most part. Early in my golf career I took lessons, but I haven't since I started back after a 10 year lapse. It's been 3 years and my new swing is fairly grooved in (which is good and bad).

Long story short, I've been on the monitor some recently and see both high launch angles and high spin numbers. We're talking 20-22 degrees of launch and 3000+ backspin average on many drivers. On the course that results in a beautiful looking shot that goes quite high, lands and just stops. With a low loft, low spin setup, I can get it down to about 15-17 and 2100-2500. I can occasionally hit it that way on the course and get some nice roll out.

Ball flight is always left to right or straight. The only time I hit it left is on a pull or mishit off the heel. When driving goes to pot, like it is right now, the mishit is a push slice (ugh). That suggests OTT and not squaring the face.

I hit the ball high on the club's face which raises the effective launch angle. I've been working to lower that by lowering the tee height and moving the ball forward in the stance. Moving it forwards though makes the left to right ball movement. Going OTT (as indicated by the slicing action) probably raises the effective loft as well.

To help me square the club, I've been using the trick to ground the driver at address several inches behind the ball. It helps me close the hands up, and SHOULD give me an ascending swing plane.

Hitting the ball at the top of the face and having the ball forward of the lowest swing plane point would explain the high launch angle. What I don't understand is the high spin. That seems to be caused by hitting down on the ball. How can I be hitting down though with the ball so much forward?

My next test is the "place the empty box of balls in front of the ball by a driver's head length" trick to see if I'm going up or down. I guess that will tell me my answer definitively.

Does the high spin pretty much automatically mean that I am hitting down? If I am hitting down on the ball, how the heck do I fix this thing?

What's odd is that I'm a picker on every other shot. I have to force myself to hit down and compress the ball.

 

[Canadan]

This is obviously Freddie's area of expertise, but do you happen to have any swing videos of your driver?

If you've been on a monitor, by chance was one a trackman? It shows attack angle.

 

[ryebread]

This is obviously Freddie's area of expertise, but do you happen to have any swing videos of your driver?

If you've been on a monitor, by chance was one a trackman? It shows attack angle.

I don't unfortunately have video. I need to borrow a slow motion camera to get a better idea.

The monitor wasn't a Trackman. While I have no reason to believe it was telling me something incorrect, it's not a design that is supposed to be able to determine the club's face angle.

 

[majBC]

I don't unfortunately have video. I need to borrow a slow motion camera to get a better idea.

The monitor wasn't a Trackman. While I have no reason to believe it was telling me something incorrect, it's not a design that is supposed to be able to determine the club's face angle.

ryebread several things can cause a steep AoA or excessive spin. A mostly arm swing and flipping the wrist, a weak grip can indirectly lead to this as well because your wrist will flip to save the shot. I think trying to keep your swing connected and let the body help square the club for you. An impact ball is a good device but you use a towel under your lead armpit (left arm for right hand golfers). Keep the towel under your arm through the whole swing, backswing, downswing and follow through. Try it and see if it helps you.

I've always been told that loft has the most influence on spin. That's one reason I use a 9.5° driver when my swing speed doesn't really warrant it, I suppose a stiffer flex shaft would lower spin as well. I personally prefer the lower loft to the stiffer flex.

 

[ryebread]

MajBC: good tips and worth a shot.

On loft I'm getting down in the 9.5 and 10.0 range and that's knocking some spin off. Of course that's less forgiveness too, which introduces other problems.

I have recently been doing a little driver bake off. A 9.5 with a low launch, low torque shaft has gotten me down to 15 in launch and 2500 in spin. Probably one of the lowest spinning heads on the market with a mid launch shaft has gotten me to 17 and 2200 in a 10 degree setting.

 

[JRod]

I don't unfortunately have video. I need to borrow a slow motion camera to get a better idea.

The monitor wasn't a Trackman. While I have no reason to believe it was telling me something incorrect, it's not a design that is supposed to be able to determine the club's face angle.

You don't need a slow motion camera. I use a Flip and then convert it with Windows Movie maker.

 

[ryebread]

You don't need a slow motion camera. I use a Flip and then convert it with Windows Movie maker.

Oh really? Interesting as I have a flip.... Thanks for the tip!

 

[Tadashi70]

Rye without a video it's hard to ascertain what is going on with your swing. I'll break it down the best I can.

you have a consistent left to right shot with a block slice as your miss. A few things at play here. Check you alignment and make sure the feet, knees, hips and shoulders are all on the same line. Also be sure to operate behind the ball. What I mean by this, is keep your head behind the ball at impact and make sure your chest stay down through impact. There is a tendency with amateurs to stand tall at impact. If the timing is right you get a powerful ball but most of the time the timing is off and you get a weak push fade. Keeping the head behind the ball insures that you are hitting the ball with the left side of your body.

you also have high face contact which could be from an early release. This would actually place the club head in front of your hands at impact. This combined with an OTT move will give you that high, weak, pop fly you are seeing. Swing the butt of the club down past you right hip before you release. If you are pulling the butt of the club down toward the ball, you are assured of a good angle of attack.

lastly it sounds like your setup may not be right for you. I'd get the flex on shaft changed. Your shots are very inconsistent and this could be due to an improper setup.

 

[ryebread]

Freddie: Good stuff and much appreciated.

- Too early release? Check. Definitely doing that. Short turn creates a scenario where I kind of have to rush to catch up. That's a mental check point though for the release trigger that I can definitely work on. No excuse from me. I need to work out, get in better shape and get more flexible for a longer rotation. Until I do that, I need to maximize what I have and a later release will help that (and also transition if I do ever get more turn).

- Behind the ball is counter intuitive and something I'll need to work on. I've been working under the assumption that I needed more weight transition to generate more power. I think I'm doing this though because occasionally I just crush it (well, for me) and it goes dead straight like 30 yards further (literally). Sometimes I miss and hit the weak, high flying slice.

- By shaft flex are you implying more or less flex? I've noticed things seem to be a little better with a heavier, firmer shaft. Again this is counter intuitive because I do best off the deck with something that helps get the ball up in the air.

Thanks!

 

[ryebread]

Freddie: I think I have it straightened out. I noticed that my pre-swing weight was shifted too much over my front foot. I shifted the weight backwards (which oddly was more about 50/50) and things came around.

I'm not saying I'm ripping 250+ yard drives. I don't have the turn and swing speed to do that.

I did get the launch angle and spin down, and the distance and accuracy up. I also got back to the positive angle of attack. That's all I'm asking for.