CPO strikes again.

RayG

Well-known member
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
2,494
Reaction score
1,463
Location
Astoria, NY
Handicap
14
More courses need to do something.

I played the former Trump Ferry Point yesterday (now Bally's). They finished their aeration about 2 weeks ago and said that CPO would end on the 15th. I come over the bridge and not a cart in sight on fairways... While it CAN be a walkable course, it isn't a very friendly CPO course, and I will explain in a minute. I check in and I'm told cart paths only, blah.. blah.... disappointing, but I have to deal with it. Tee off was at 1PM (traffic getting there is another story with a lane closed getting onto the bridge so it was carnage. Pulled a local move and did an end around probably saving 60-90 minutes to go 2 miles or less).

Supposedly, they do their aeration and keep carts off to "provide the finest and immaculate conditions NYC deserves" (or something like that). To be honest the fairways were chewed up and practically furrowed. Something is going on agronomically. There had been some rain on Monday- nothing unusual. Dried out later on Monday, then Tuesday and Wednesday were beautiful sunny days with breezes that picked up through the day. First couple of holes I noticed drives would nearly plug, or leave pitch marks and essentially stop in a yard or two. Even walking across the fairway (again, and again...) you could FEEL something was wrong- WAY too spongey under foot. It almost felt like the grass wasn't attached to the base. (I've come across this before on courses that sod, then open too soon before it really beds in)
As well as when walking past the field drains you could hear the water rushing like the Colorado River. Previous times, there was a lot more roll out and much firmer turf. Approach shots were taking divots the size of small cats and were heavy since they were so moist.

So maybe they KNOW something is going on and are keeping CPO in effect to try and save it.

Now- onto the main event. I was paired up with 3 gentlemen of 'older persuasion'. 70, 84 and 93. Met up on the range and they were nice guys. 2 had never played there and the other, twice (this is my 4th or 5th), so they were looking forward to playing. the older 2 played the forward tees, while the other an myself played the whites. Fair enough. Here's where courses need to think about their customers. In general the overall pace is going to suffer under CPO rules, but having to make a 93 yo, and an 84 yo constantly have to hit, go back to the cart, move up 100 yards (or less) find another access point, go back to the ball, hit, walk back, etc... is just wrong. Considering the type of 'experience' they are marketing and the, lets face it, "more affluent clientele" they are marketing to, they should provide a way to at LEAST allow 90* for some people. Even the Starter was a bit perplexed and apologized before we even tee'd off. "We had a guy with Parkinson's last week and they wouldn't let him do it". That, to me, is a CLEAR indication that something is seriously wrong with the turf. These 2 older gentlemen were having a tough time and you could see and hear it. Before everyone gets all riled up, we were NOT holding anyone up since we (Well, ME, anyway) had to wait on nearly every shot on the group in front. 2 foursomes that seemed to be trying to play together (but that's another story).
We only had to let one group through, and that was on the tenth tee, we stopped for a few minutes for a restroom break, while the group behind did not. So they were right behind us on the tee hitting from the longer tees, so we let them go on and have THEM wait on that group or 2 ahead. We kept up from there pretty much. it would accordion once in awhile, as normal.

CPO clearly kills pace- it was 5-1/2 hours for everyone. Even IF they had allowed the 90* for the handicapped or elderly, it would not have sped anybody up. These 2 guys were exhausted, they practically walked the whole course anyway. Fair deuce to the 93 year old guy- he stuck it out and was trying to enjoy himself and did say he would like to play there again but ONLY if he could use the cart. Can't say that I disagree.
 
Props to that 93 year old. We've had the wettest summer I can remember...CPO more often than not. I don't mind as I get more exercise, but yeah, it can be a pace of play buzz kill.
 
I have a neuromuscular disease. CPO is definitely not my friend. I feel it’s up to me to know what I can handle on a given day. If my legs aren’t up to it maybe I don’t play or only play nine. I’ve seen enough guys ignore CPO and damage fairways. I get it they make an exception for me ( and I have been told before if I keep the cart in the rough it’s okay because they know my condition) then some other yahoo is going to ignore CPO since he sees I’m not doing it and then fairways get damaged. I usually will phone ahead if there is a chance of CPO and I’m not sure I feel up to it. I’m not sure there is an easy answer to this issue.
 
Many courses offer Flags for carts to be used by Disabled persons that will allow it,(depending on conditions) as well as letting them get just a bit closer to greens when needed on non CPO days. Makes it obvious that there is something different going on. And, TBH, this place isn’t catering to ‘yahoos’ out for a few yuks. Minimum price for a city resident (non-senior) is around $150, and non resident rates start at $200- midweek.
 
I’d rather not play than do CPO. Almost a guaranteed slow round.
 
Came in here expecting another positive Callaway pre owned feedback, whoops

Good for the older guys to deal with all that , but I certainly hope they were able to recover and feel alright from all that extra walking
 
I have had this conversation many times, with many types of people, and I have come to the same unfortunate and probably somewhat unpleasant perspective each time.

CPO is a grind. Maybe it's not for everyone.
 
I hate CPO with a passion and would walk anyday if doable as sounds like your older members most likely walked more distance to/from cart than if they walked with a cart.

I know at some courses though due to distances between green and tee it is not feasible or for other reasons but the course should in some way call you ahead of time if original communicated conditions had changed to CPO.
 
CPO is definitely slower than walking. I think courses should just leave the carts in the barn on what would be a CPO day. If you must ride, go elsewhere.
Exception, some courses I play at the cottage have 1/4-1/3 of a mile from green to next tee in hilly terrain.
 
As a bit of a follow up- Ferry Point is eminently walkable. Only on a couple of holes is there a ‘bit’ more of a walk between green and next tee. Longest is after 9 going over to 10, but that is probably the norm for many courses. One issue is that they do NOT allow push carts of ANY kind. Personal or rentals. You want to walk, you carry or get a caddy for (around) $100 + tip.
 
Man! Props to the 93 yo for hanging in there. I think if he and the 80 yo were exhausted they probably should have stopped at 9 and called it a day. Come back another day and hit the back 9 but that's my opinion.

1 way to help alleviate this would be for the course to provide escorts on the fairway and chauffered carts... or cameras everywhere on the carts or the fairways and someone watching... or an AI program watching the feeds to see who is and isn't riding in the rough or fairways. This would increase greens fees a lot though I would think.
 
I have played a few courses recently which were chewed up by cart tire markings from dumbarse drivers. So you'll get zero empathy from me regarding allowing 90 degree rule because nobody does 90 degree. If it's CPO, just walk. You're going to walk the entire course anyway. And older gents should realize the situation and just come back another day if a cart is needed. Damage to the course from just one dummy in a cart ruins it for everybody.
 
Came in here expecting another positive Callaway pre owned feedback, whoops

Good for the older guys to deal with all that , but I certainly hope they were able to recover and feel alright from all that extra walking
Same
 
Sorry, but I'm going to trust the super's opinion of what the right move is over the golfers.
 
Sorry, but I'm going to trust the super's opinion of what the right move is over the golfers.

I certainly agree- and I think that was part of my point about what is going on at the course, turf-wise. The previous times I played before- 2 CPO and 2 Free range carts, the turf was in MUCH better condition. There were no 'furrows' (as an example of what it looked like- think of the former furrowed bunkers at Oakmont. not NEARLY as extreme as that but clearly visible), that followed the aeration lines. The ball would settle a bit into one every time.

They could avoid disgruntled customers by allowing pull/push carts either all the time or during certain times following aeration times or particularly wet conditions (Like we will have this week here in NYC). I can say, I would definitely play there more often if I knew I had the option to use my push cart in the event of CPO on arrival. Certainly not every week, but more than the once or twice a year I have done.

Oh- one other thing regarding the carts. They are pretty fancy with GPS tracking and such. They have electronic fencing or GPS tagged areas that prevent you from straying into various areas even when carts are free range. There is at least one hole that is CPO all the time (a low lying short Par 4 that seems to be moist all the time) and Par 3's are CPO as well. You get an alarm and the cart will stop and only allow reverse to get back to an area where you can access the paths and resume normal cart operation. So you could allow those that can use/need 90* to access the fairways, but NOT have 'some yahoo' seeing those and figuring -'hey, they can go there, so why can't I...?'.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top