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The Economy Takes Its Toll

Esox

Esox

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Most people are aware of the golf available here in WI in Kohler with the American Club which has hosted Majors at The Straits Course and The River Course. There's also a nearby Nicklaus designed track called The Bull at Pinehurst Farms. I haven't played it, but it's supposed to be really nice. Over the last couple years they've offered some pretty good deals, especially in the Spring and Fall, and I always wondered how they were doing.

Not too well, apparently as the lender that holds the mortgage has foreclosed, and a bundle in back taxes are owed. We probably have too many high end courses here in SE Cheeseland, and if Erin Hills, host of the 2017 U.S. Open, wouldn't have been rescued by a hundred millionaire, it probably would have went under, too. I can think of three other championship type designs within an hour and a half of Beertown that are heavily tied into the residential developments around them that I bet are in danger, also.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/116447053.html

Anybody seeing high profile courses closing or in trouble around your necks of the woods. I know of a couple older private clubs in our area that are also struggling. I fear golf got a little ahead of itself over the last 15 years.

Kevin
 
same here in Vegas. Courses that would turn their noses up at you 3 years ago are putting stuff in my windshield wiper at the grocery store. It's pathetic.

The course I really worry about it Paiute. It's three Peter Dye courses that i've never seen in just "average" quality. It's top notch the whole way, it's also 45-55 minutes outside of town so nobody goes out there.....
 
Esox said:
Most people are aware of the golf available here in WI in Kohler with the American Club which has hosted Majors at The Straits Course and The River Course. There's also a nearby Nicklaus designed track called The Bull at Pinehurst Farms. I haven't played it, but it's supposed to be really nice. Over the last couple years they've offered some pretty good deals, especially in the Spring and Fall, and I always wondered how they were doing.

Not too well, apparently as the lender that holds the mortgage has foreclosed, and a bundle in back taxes are owed. We probably have too many high end courses here in SE Cheeseland, and if Erin Hills, host of the 2017 U.S. Open, wouldn't have been rescued by a hundred millionaire, it probably would have went under, too. I can think of three other championship type designs within an hour and a half of Beertown that are heavily tied into the residential developments around them that I bet are in danger, also.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/116447053.html

Anybody seeing high profile courses closing or in trouble around your necks of the woods. I know of a couple older private clubs in our area that are also struggling. I fear golf got a little ahead of itself over the last 15 years.

Kevin
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I think the key words in your post were "high end". Many of these types of course's have priced themselves to go under. Same thing with the private courses. With the prices they command, something has to happen sooner or later. Tons of great courses I would love to play, but I simply refuse to pay some of the greens fees they are asking or even the stay and play rates.
 
I remember hearing Whistling Straights was asking around $275 to walk on and play 18 last year. I don't know anyone who would be willing to pay that much for a round. There are so many incredible courses all over the us I can't see paying more than $100, and that would be for a "major" type course, Torrey, Bethpage etc...
 
tnc200 said:
I remember hearing Whistling Straights was asking around $275 to walk on and play 18 last year. I don't know anyone who would be willing to pay that much for a round. There are so many incredible courses all over the us I can't see paying more than $100, and that would be for a "major" type course, Torrey, Bethpage etc...
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The whole camping out the night before jsut to get a tee time at bethpage black is def on my Bucket List.
 
Snap Hook said:
The whole camping out the night before jsut to get a tee time at bethpage black is def on my Bucket List.
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Yeah I like the idea of a golf/rv travel trip. I wouldn't be in any hurry to play the black course though. Way over my ability level, that one.
 
tnc200 said:
Yeah I like the idea of a golf/rv travel trip. I wouldn't be in any hurry to play the black course though. Way over my ability level, that one.
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still it's all about the trip and hanging out with your buddies. I did that once my junior year of highschool. My friend went to live with his father during the summer and got a summer job at the local muni. We drove from Nor Cal to Texas, for 3 days just to play a round there with our buddy. Not the greatest course, but great memories none the less.
 
There are those courses as well as "high end" elements of almost anything that you can think of that can cater to a particular perspective and for whom the price lends an air of exclusivity that actually helps them maintain their margins and their clientele etc etc. However that is a rather select group.

The courses and again almost anything else that you can think of that aspire to a version of that image but have been trying to build a customer base have really been caught up in this economic mess. Frankly a good many good people and good organizations that occupy something of the middle ground have been caught up in it as well. Lets face it, the middle ground has really been beaten up pretty badly in all of this and while there has been suffering all around I suspect the biggest net change has been there.

We lost the only "golf only" retail outlet we had in the largest nearby "city" as they moved to a site occupied by a driving range about 20 miles south of what had been their location for almost 25 years. So they gave up their position within a city limits and close to one of the larger malls in the area for a spot that is clearly focused on golf, is a bit out in the boonies but closer to the Massachusetts state line as well. I have to admit that it is probably a good move. Lately if I have time to think about a golf purchase there is a good chance that I will buy on-line. They should be able to generate a good many more impulse buys where the price does not bear so heavily.

In addition they should be able to do the same thing that the shop down in Hudson NH attached to a headed bay range does, secure a couple of bays for their own use and be able to send potential customers out to the range with a bucket of balls to demo the club. The range they went to always had a pro shop so it must have folded for these guys to have moved in. In fact, they are only ten miles away from the place in Hudson that has heated bays so while it likely is still a better location for them, they have now inserted their head's right into the lion's mouth.

None of the decisions people have had to make in all of this have been good decisions. Sort of makes you go back and revisit the genesis of this mess which is really sickening.
 
Its sad, but for people like me, it's fortunate. I am a phone call or two away from permission to play at a local club. Never would have happened 5 years ago.
 
While its not high end like some of the other discussion on here, our local country club was having big money issues. Luckily for us a local business man and his son bought it and then donated it, along with operating money, to the local junior college. Now it is open to the public. The greens are in rough shape, but after the agronomy students have a chance to work with them for a year or so, I am thinking it will be a really great course to play. I think it was really cool for it to be donated to the school and not made into another rich mans play ground.
 
All of these closing are sad, yes, but I personally think all of this is just a market correction based over development during the boom time. The really good courses will probably be resurrected by someone when the economy improves...time will tell.
 
Here most courses are struggling but a year ago Bear Mountain which has two championship Nicklaus courses went bankrupt and is now owned by the bank. They made two HUGE mistakes that ruined them, 1) Building the second course which cost $2.5 mill per hole 2) They thought they could be a resort course only and priced themselves in a way where the average victoria golfer wouldn't go. Once the money troubles started because the whole course was tied to the realestate market the tried to start offering local rates to get us to play but it was too late, they had alienated the local golf community. Now I play there fairly often because a local can play both courses in one day, with a cart for $60-$80 and the course is still empty.
 
royalwulff said:
While its not high end like some of the other discussion on here, our local country club was having big money issues. Luckily for us a local business man and his son bought it and then donated it, along with operating money, to the local junior college. Now it is open to the public. The greens are in rough shape, but after the agronomy students have a chance to work with them for a year or so, I am thinking it will be a really great course to play. I think it was really cool for it to be donated to the school and not made into another rich mans play ground.
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Great news. Nice someone saved it for everyone to play.
 
royalwulff said:
While its not high end like some of the other discussion on here, our local country club was having big money issues. Luckily for us a local business man and his son bought it and then donated it, along with operating money, to the local junior college. Now it is open to the public. The greens are in rough shape, but after the agronomy students have a chance to work with them for a year or so, I am thinking it will be a really great course to play. I think it was really cool for it to be donated to the school and not made into another rich mans play ground.
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Now that is a good story. Nice to hear that sort of thing.

Plenty of courses around here in bad shape and a few that have closed, including one pretty new course that had aspirations of high end tournament hosting but was too hard for most locals and too expensive in a planne community that didnt take off as planned in the slump.
 
AHA said:
All of these closing are sad, yes, but I personally think all of this is just a market correction based over development during the boom time. The really good courses will probably be resurrected by someone when the economy improves...time will tell.
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You hit the nail on the head, the overdevelopment over the past 15 years caused this bubble to burst. The course that people want to play will be there in the end and the others will either learn their lesson and lower prices/go public or just close all together.
 
Hey Esox,

Don't forget Erin Hills for a fantastic WI course.

I have played The Bull. I thought it was good. Not great. The layout was difficult, too difficult for the nonserious golfer. I don't think that there are enough good golfers to support a course that will eat up a bad golfer. Nobody is going to pay $100 for 18 so they can lose 13 golf balls.
 
Bad economy or not, I simply refuse to pay big bucks to play a round of golf anywhere. I would love to play Pebble Beach but I wouldn't even think of paying $495. Anything over $50 to me is over priced but I know $495 for some people is like $50 for me.
 
HoosierGolfer said:
Bad economy or not, I simply refuse to pay big bucks to play a round of golf anywhere. I would love to play Pebble Beach but I wouldn't even think of paying $495. Anything over $50 to me is over priced but I know $495 for some people is like $50 for me.
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This, I enjoy golf but refuse to pay more than $50-55 per round to play 18. Ideally I like to be around $35-40 per 18. On vacation I might splurge to try a new course, but around here I'd rather pay less and play more often.

I try and play after 3-4pm and catch twilight rates at most courses around here, which usually knocks $10-15 off the cost to play a round.
 
I don't know of any high-end courses around here closing, but some that have opened within the last 5 years, and were supposed to be private, are still semi-private. The driving range/practice facility that was half a mile from my house was sold a year ago and the land still remains vacant, bastages.
 
mariusvt said:
This, I enjoy golf but refuse to pay more than $50-55 per round to play 18. Ideally I like to be around $35-40 per 18. On vacation I might splurge to try a new course, but around here I'd rather pay less and play more often.

I try and play after 3-4pm and catch twilight rates at most courses around here, which usually knocks $10-15 off the cost to play a round.
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I'm with you. I like seeing my money either in the bank or in my retirement account!
 
blugold said:
Hey Esox,

Don't forget Erin Hills for a fantastic WI course.
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My favorite WI course. Was so glad to hear the news when the new owner came in. I played one of the very last rounds during the old owner's reign... they were moving all his crap out when we were eating at the bar.
 
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