Judging a bag by its contents & a book by its cover

[TC]

i guess i could lighten up, but i also see you hear that bell ring, you come out of the corner swinging, then when you fatigue, you throw some loose shots. the fact is, this is twice where you have yet to answer questions directed at you. you can put together 4 or 5 paragraphs of how you're misunderstood, or how i am highly strung, but all i want you to do is answer questions. here's two that have never been answered:

what do you consider a "serious" golfer?
when's the last time you played golf?

stop dancing around and just answer the questions.

 

[JPsuff]

Maybe. Just maybe.

Since this seems to be a growing trend with your posts, it has everything to do with how your points come across.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but when it is the same person getting attacked for their thoughts, one has to wonder why. So on a long flight back to FL, I went back and read a whole lot of them. Here is MY OPINION. Your posts come across as condescending and from a pedestal looking down on the rest. Constant flip flops to make a point. Good info takes a backseat to a holier than thou attitude that I am sure you are not trying to portray, but when so many people seem to see it, it cannot be people just missing the point, but perhaps the point being hard to determine or changing.

Not too long ago (on 3 or more different occasions) you were sent away from THP. What I got was long well written apologies each time (daily) saying how much you liked it here, you enjoyed the people here, that you actually realized that YOU were making mistakes, etc...And each time we allowed you to come back and post again. Yet after just a few weeks, the same stuff started again.

Its time to just move on from all of that. It can't be every single person not understanding your point of view, or maybe just that the point of view is so clouded that it is not understandable. Maybe you should check out the emails you sent to this site a while back and go back to the guy that had some solid info.

You have your opinions and I have mine.

I understand what you're saying JB and I can't say that I disagree with you completely but I do feel as if what I say seems to come under more critical scrutiny than what some others may say and for the life of me I can't figure out why.

What you call "flip-flopping" isn't really. I often get caught up in a subject and I sometimes see that there are instances when a thing can be seen from a variety of perspectives and I may seem to support one and then switch to another but that's just part of exploring something. In the end though, I generally stand by my original opinion about something even though I may give a little ground now and then.

As far as liking it here, I did then and I still do. I don't understand why I seem to step on so many toes, especially when I consider most people here to be very intelligent and very knowledgeable overall. Maybe I'm relying too much on that?

Since we're putting our cards on the table, I will say that there is a definite sense of "protection" here -- more so than on other forums in which people here seem to rush to defend either you or the forum no matter what.
That's great from a "team spirit" point of view but it tends to put a damper on serious debate because a contrary or unpopular view is often seen as an attack rather than simply a differing point of view. You yourself have demonstrated this from time to time when you threaten to (or actually do) shut down a thread seemingly for no other reason than because I or someone else simply disagrees with you.

Isn't that the whole point of a debate?

But as far as everything else is concerned, I'm certainly no elitist. I CAN be condescending and didactic (and no I'm not using that word to sound snobby, it's just the best word to use) and I have no problem admitting that. But I stand by what I said in my previous post, that I'm probably the most "Live and let live" person you'll ever meet, so take that for what it's worth, but that's who I am.

If you're looking for a conformist then you'll be disappointed because I'm the wrong guy for that. But if you're looking for an honest person who loves golf, loves people (and who loves to argue), then I'm you're man!

And I'll say again what I said to you in one of those emails, there isn't a malicious bone in my body - there never was and there never will be.



-JP

 

[JB]

but I do feel as if what I say seems to come under more critical scrutiny than what some others may say and for the life of me I can't figure out why.

Because you have been banned MULTIPLE times and every time have sent the "Im sorry" message only to be allowed back in and then the cycle starts again.

It ENDS HERE!

There is a "protection" here. People that come here frequently enjoy what THP has to offer and are not going to deal with the nonsense and personal attacks that you have been sent away for previously.

If you dont like the way this forum is run....there are a hundred of others that I am sure are run differently that you can join up. But dont send me the apology two days later saying "I was wrong". Its ENDS HERE!

 

[JPsuff]

i guess i could lighten up, but i also see you hear that bell ring, you come out of the corner swinging, then when you fatigue, you throw some loose shots. the fact is, this is twice where you have yet to answer questions directed at you. you can put together 4 or 5 paragraphs of how you're misunderstood, or how i am highly strung, but all i want you to do is answer questions. here's two that have never been answered:

what do you consider a "serious" golfer?
when's the last time you played golf?

stop dancing around and just answer the questions.

I'm not going to get into the "serious golfer" thing. I think everyone here is smart enough to know what that term means and it has been used countless times in every golf and golf travel magazine ever printed.

As for the last time I played golf, I've said that at least three or four times here but since you seem to need to know, the last time I was on a golf course was late November of 2008.

As it happens, my financial situation from then until now is nowhere near as good as it should (or could) be and I'm afraid that golf has had to take a back seat to more pressing realities.

Such is life.

That said, I began playing golf in 1968. So unless there has been some sea change in the game or the way it's played in these last two years, I'd say that the forty years I've played it prior to my recent layoff allows me to have an opinion or two.


-JP

 

[TC]

I'm not going to get into the "serious golfer" thing. I think everyone here is smart enough to know what that term means and it has been used countless times in every golf and golf travel magazine ever printed.

As for the last time I played golf, I've said that at least three or four times here but since you seem to need to know, the last time I was on a golf course was late November of 2008.

As it happens, my financial situation from then until now is nowhere near as good as it should (or could) be and I'm afraid that golf has had to take a back seat to more pressing realities.

Such is life.

That said, I began playing golf in 1968. So unless there has been some sea change in the game or the way it's played in these last two years, I'd say that the forty years I've played it prior to my recent layoff allows me to have an opinion or two.


-JP

see, it still comes off as condescending.....you clearly just don't see it. i'm just trying to understand you. well, i hope you can get out and golf again sometime soon.

 

[JPsuff]

see, it still comes off as condescending.....you clearly just don't see it. i'm just trying to understand you. well, i hope you can get out and golf again sometime soon.

TC, if I come across that way and if what I say either offends you or makes you think I'm taking shots at you I apologize for that.

That's not my intention and it never has been; not to you or to anyone else here -- not even JB .

I really do proofread what I write and I really do think that it just makes a point. But maybe I'm just so used to saying things the way I say them to the people who know me that I don't realize that it may come across differently to others. It's something I have to work on I guess.

Anyway, I hope there are no hard feelings! :thumb:


-JP

 

[jnug]

Well this is going to date me for sure. My dad used to carry just eight clubs in his day. 3, 5,7, 9 iron, wedge, Driver, 3W and putter. By the way, he could kick my ass regularly with those eight clubs and I suspect that a good many people could kick my ass today just with those eight clubs.

My dad has long passed away and I am no longer a spring chicken. So we are talking about late 1950’s and 1960’s here. I remember that the golf retailers used to advertise these half sets as well. They were aimed right at somebody that wanted to carry about eight clubs.

Anyway I can’t say that I pay much attention to what somebody is carrying. I usually give a quick glance just to see if somebody is carrying clubs that I have not seen and therefore have some interest. Like if someone had one of the exotic Japanese makes I would be interested in that and might even ask if I could take a look at one. I don’t have an issue with people looking with more interest than that.

It does not take much to see when someone has a relatively light load and I was just wondering if these half sets are still popular. Sure it would mean on occasion that you would be left having to hammer something or take a bit off because you were stuck right where one of those other clubs would be. To be honest there are days when I am out there having such a bad day that nothing is going to help me and I have a bag full of dead weight.

Does anybody still see or play a half set? It seems to me that it might make real sense even if you had a full set if on occasion you just wanted to grab a light bag and head out for a fast nine.

 

[RxGus]

I feel somewhat culpable for this thread swinging in the direction that it did... I reacted to some comments about dress early on that spiraled this entire thing off. I was happy to see it was dead when I went to work this morning but apparently it has survived and morphed into a fierce animal with a life of its own.

I apologize if, at any point, I came off as a closed minded and elitist golfer. It was never my intention and has never been part of my personality. The closest I get to snoddy is giving away prov-1s I find because I wont play them. I hope that all of my comments were well thought out, well worded, and well taken.

I am not a "bickering" person and threads like this make me really uncomfortable.

Sorry again for spawning this beast. It was not intentional in anyway, shape, or form.

 

[JPsuff]

Well this is going to date me for sure. My dad used to carry just eight clubs in his day. 3, 5,7, 9 iron, wedge, Driver, 3W and putter. By the way, he could kick my ass regularly with those eight clubs and I suspect that a good many people could kick my ass today just with those eight clubs.

My dad has long passed away and I am no longer a spring chicken. So we are talking about late 1950’s and 1960’s here. I remember that the golf retailers used to advertise these half sets as well. They were aimed right at somebody that wanted to carry about eight clubs.

Anyway I can’t say that I pay much attention to what somebody is carrying. I usually give a quick glance just to see if somebody is carrying clubs that I have not seen and therefore have some interest. Like if someone had one of the exotic Japanese makes I would be interested in that and might even ask if I could take a look at one. I don’t have an issue with people looking with more interest than that.

It does not take much to see when someone has a relatively light load and I was just wondering if these half sets are still popular. Sure it would mean on occasion that you would be left having to hammer something or take a bit off because you were stuck right where one of those other clubs would be. To be honest there are days when I am out there having such a bad day that nothing is going to help me and I have a bag full of dead weight.

Does anybody still see or play a half set? It seems to me that it might make real sense even if you had a full set if on occasion you just wanted to grab a light bag and head out for a fast nine.

Ah! The ol' 3-5-7-9 set!

That's what I learned with (I didn't even get the PW until years later) and I don't regret a moment of it!

And the "hammer something" or "take a bit off" aspect taught me a lot and I still use what I learned back then all these years later.

I really think that a set like that would still make a great teaching aid for a new golfer. It takes a lot of the thinking out of things and it teaches what can be done with a club besides a "standard" shot.

Sometimes I really miss those days.


-JP

 

[Drumdog]

I've been asked at one of the really exclusive clubs in my area to take my hat off as I walked into the clubhouse.

That same place sent someone away for wearing jeans into the clubhouse.

When the wife took me for my 50th bday to Pebble and Spanish Bay, we were having breakfast at Spanish Bay when the waiter asked me to remove my hat.
He said it was perfectly ok for the ladies to keep theirs on, but not the men. I guess it's ok for us guys to have hat hair in the joint, but not the ladies. (too funny)

 

[aca247]

idont judge your game but some of our opponents at school are obviously preppy

 

[Hawk]

idont judge your game but some of our opponents at school are obviously preppy

Preppies drive me crazy!

 

[CharlieMoy]

Preppies drive me crazy!

But your meaning and slaters meaning are you different ones. He hates them... You? Hmmm...

 

[Hawk]

But your meaning and slaters meaning are you different ones. He hates them... You? Hmmm...

I've always been a Zach fan. Can't help but love a guy that can freeze time.

 

[birdsboro]

If you've ever read my posts, you might see the irony in that comment.

As for the rest of your post, essentially what you're doing is making fun of golfers you feel are well dressed. The same thing in reverse. This whole thread has been that way.

It's neat you're such a shark on the course. You play a lot of money games with sharp dressed guys you don't know when you get paired up? What kind of dollars are we talking here? I'd love to hear more about your hustling adventures.

Kevin

Does it matter how much? i mean really? Whether its a dollar or a hundred your still paying me... and i am quite proud of the $150 i took from a guy recently... considering it started out at .25 a hole..and dollar birdies..racked him up pretty good.. man those presses are a mother. And you don't understand MY post... I am the one being "judged" inferior by my well dressed fellow golfers...and that is the way that I like it. trust me, when i am playing a fourball with my friends i look nothing like when i am out as a single. How one dresses has nothing to do with respectin the game...it has to do with respecting one's self. a person should never look like a slob on the course or even in public. kinda like washing your car or landscaping your house. you do it not for others but to show alittle pride in yourself and your family.

 

[thedue]

Does it matter how much? i mean really? Whether its a dollar or a hundred your still paying me... and i am quite proud of the $150 i took from a guy recently... considering it started out at .25 a hole..and dollar birdies..racked him up pretty good.. man those presses are a mother. And you don't understand MY post... I am the one being "judged" inferior by my well dressed fellow golfers...and that is the way that I like it. trust me, when i am playing a fourball with my friends i look nothing like when i am out as a single. How one dresses has nothing to do with respectin the game...it has to do with respecting one's self. a person should never look like a slob on the course or even in public. kinda like washing your car or landscaping your house. you do it not for others but to show alittle pride in yourself and your family.

You definitely sound proud of yourself!

 

[TC]

You definitely sound proud of yourself!

+1!!!!

you must play golf with some horrible gamblers.

 

[jnug]

I've been asked at one of the really exclusive clubs in my area to take my hat off as I walked into the clubhouse.

Biggsy.....just wondering but since you said it was in your area, was this a Florida course? I do take my hat off to shake hands at the end of a round and I do it whether the person I might be paired with is 15 or 55 but I would likely not be prepared to take my hat off entering the clubhouse. I would certainly adhere to the local custom if that was the case. But, unless I had seen a few guys walk in ahead of me, I would likely not realize that was the custom at that course clubhouse. Honestly I don't know how to feel about that. It almost makes me feel like my ediquette is slipping. The truth is there was a day when I would have taken my hat off (any hat, anywhere) when entering a publlic gathering place from outdoors and it would have been automatic. My hand would have lurched up there before I could have stopped it. Does make me think a bit to be honest.

I am just curious but did you happen to notice the same when guys walked into the pro shop?

 

[TC]

Biggsy.....just wondering but since you said it was in your area, was this a Florida course? I do take my hat off to shake hands at the end of a round and I do it whether the person I might be paired with is 15 or 55 but I would likely not be prepared to take my hat off entering the clubhouse. I would certainly adhere to the local custom if that was the case. But, unless I had seen a few guys walk in ahead of me, I would likely not realize that was the custom at that course clubhouse. Honestly I don't know how to feel about that. It almost makes me feel like my ediquette is slipping. The truth is there was a day when I would have taken my hat off (any hat, anywhere) when entering a publlic gathering place from outdoors and it would have been automatic. My hand would have lurched up there before I could have stopped it. Does make me think a bit to be honest.

I am just curious but did you happen to notice the same when guys walked into the pro shop?

walk into just about any clubhouse in australia with a hat on and you'll be buying drinks for those who are present for the misdemeanor. it's something that i do out of habit, no matter what clubhouse i'm in.

 

[bpipe95]

well this is a fine mess, I did not think it would get this serious.

But it is the internet, and the internets is srs bsns!

I have returned and am now properly dressed.

 

[jnug]

In my neck of the woods these days, hats come off in the clubhouse more for comfort than anything else....air conditioned....etc etc. Guys including yours truly usually take them off soon after arrival, maybe as we take a seat. At that point myself I feel a little odd wearing one. But that is entirely different from taking it off as you are entering which I think is what Bigssy is referring to. My taking my hat off for my comfort is not nearly the same thing and there are usually just as many in the clubhouse wearing them as not.

 

[Ouimet]

I think the hat business all harks back to the day of aulde. When men were men, women were chaste (or chased) and the wearing of white belts resulted in execution.

Hats or headwear of any sort were seen as a marque of authority, the ultimate of course being the crown of a monarch. To keep one's helmet or similar on in the prescence of a King would have been seen as a direct challenge to his authority. So by removing it you are acknowledging the King's position and that you have no superiority over anyone present.

Hence today it is still seen as polite to remove a hat to show that you have no feelings of superior standing to those around you. Ladies, having no such delusions of power, are permitted to keep their pretty little bonnets on.

I see golf as one of the few remaining sports where sportsmanship and etiquette are respected by both players and viewers alike. I think of Brian Davis recently, Jack conceding that putt to Jacklin in 1969 and Davis Love III and Darren Clarke at the Ryder Cup too. It is a game where cheating or even bending the rules is villefied to such an extent that nobody with any respect for their opposition/partners or themsleves would do it. All the other little things in golf add to it and make it not only a sport but a metaphor for one's self and life as a whole.

Play fair, respect others, stay calm when things aren't going well and squeeze everything ounce of pleasure that you can from your journey. Golf and life hand in hand.

 

[biggsy]

Biggsy.....just wondering but since you said it was in your area, was this a Florida course? I do take my hat off to shake hands at the end of a round and I do it whether the person I might be paired with is 15 or 55 but I would likely not be prepared to take my hat off entering the clubhouse. I would certainly adhere to the local custom if that was the case. But, unless I had seen a few guys walk in ahead of me, I would likely not realize that was the custom at that course clubhouse. Honestly I don't know how to feel about that. It almost makes me feel like my ediquette is slipping. The truth is there was a day when I would have taken my hat off (any hat, anywhere) when entering a publlic gathering place from outdoors and it would have been automatic. My hand would have lurched up there before I could have stopped it. Does make me think a bit to be honest.

I am just curious but did you happen to notice the same when guys walked into the pro shop?

No, this was purely a "don't wear a hat to a nice restaurant" type of clubhouse. We were going into the restaurant/lounge/bar to eat lunch after our round and the Maître d' asked me to remove my hat. I was taken aback, but I was a guest so I conformed. I went in the locker room to fix my hair, it was a mess, so I was presentable eating lunch.

I've only noticed the exclusive private clubs do that in my area. At my club (which is semi-private), I wear a hat inside and eat lunch, no issues.

The course was The Colony in Estero. It's private and I was only able to play there because my wife was an employee of the owners of the club.

 

[OttawaGolf]

I generally always check out what others are playing asking questions what not. I just love getting feedback on what people play. I never judge though because like most on here just because what a person plays doesn't constitute ability. Case in point I always have the latest and greatest apparel and clubs but I'm still a high handicap player.

 

[biggsy]

Like I said earlier, some clubs just take their dress codes more seriously.

Here are the Attire rules for Ridgewood Country Club, where The Barclays is being played this weekend. You'll probably need a nap after reading this.

Members are requested to review the Club’s dress code found herein. Rules are specific and should be followed by members, their families and their guests. At the request of the Board of Directors, the Managers, Professionals and Maitre D’s staff will be enforcing the dress code in all areas of the Clubhouse, as well as, the golf facilities and on club grounds. Good judgment is always in order so that the Club can be a gracious extension of our homes at all times.

Your cooperation is both expected and appreciated.

In General

Denim clothing is not permitted.

Hats and visors may only be worn in the locker rooms and outside grounds and must be worn with brims facing forward.

Brief shorts, brief or mini-skirts, cargo pants or similar attire is not permitted at any time.

Golf shoes are not permitted in Formal Areas. Golf shoes with metal spikes are not permitted anywhere at the club. Proper footwear (i.e. shoes, sneakers, sandals) is required in the clubhouse and/or on the Century Room patio or rear Terrace. “Flip-flops” or other similar footwear is permitted only in the locker rooms or by the pool.

Club Casual Attire

Men: sport coat, “button down” collared shirt, sweater or sweater vest and long pants.

Women: dress, dressy skirt or dress pants.

Casual Attire

Men: “button down” collared shirt (worn tucked in), sweater or sweater vest, turtle neck shirt or sweater (no mock turtle neck or collarless shirt) and long pants. No jacket is required.

Women: dress, skirt or pants.

Golf Attire

Men: golf shirts with sleeves and collars, pants or Bermuda length shorts. Turtle neck shirts or sweaters, “mock” turtle neck shirts or sweaters or other collarless shirts or cargo pants are not appropriate golf attire.

Woman: shirts may be sleeveless if with a collar or if without a collar, must be with sleeves. Strapless, halter or tank tops are not permitted. Golf skirts, culottes, pants and shorts of Bermuda length or longer are required. Cargo pants are not appropriate golf attire.

In the Clubhouse

Formal Areas – In these areas which include the Main Dining Room, Lounge and Peacock Alley, all men and boys over the age of 5 years old must wear jackets and ties on Saturday evening for dinner, on Sunday for brunch and on holiday occasions. “Club Casual” Attire is required for men at all other times except for special occasions when announced.

Informal Areas – In these areas which include the Century Room, Century Room Patio, Rear Terrace, Main Bar, Member’s Grill, Upstairs Meeting Rooms and Jacobus Lounge, appropriate “Golf Attire” is required. Tennis attire and warm up suits are permitted only until 5:00 P.M. Brief shorts or bathing attire, even though covered by a robe or wrapper, are not permitted at any time. Shoes must be worn at all times.

On Club grounds

Golfing Areas – In these areas which include the Club grounds, the golf course, the Pro Shop and the Pro Shop Patio, putting clock and the range; members, their family and their guests must be in appropriate “Golf Attire”. Turtle neck shirts are permitted golf attire only from November 1st through March 31st.

It is the member’s responsibility to be sure that the items purchased in the Pro Shop meet the Club’s attire requirements.

Swimming Area – Bathing suits must be in good taste and are permitted only in the pool area. Street attire must be worn going to and from the pool. The Pool Manager and his staff should be asked to make a judgment before wearing any item where there is a question as to whether it is appropriate.

Tennis – Smooth bottom tennis shoes must be worn at all times. Tennis attire must be all white. Colored trim is permitted. Colored warm ups are permitted in the spring and fall season. Shirts without collars, cut-offs and bathing suits are not permitted.

Platform Tennis – The game is usually played in comfortable clothing. Flat, soft rubber soled shoes are the only footwear allowed.

http://www.rcc1890.com/attire/