America stinks at golf?
the_paulo
Euro target practice
I agree with this. I can't speak for the whole European attitude, but in the UK in particular, we seem to be a little embarrassed by wanting to succeed. As if it's not the done thing to dream and aspire to something you might not reach, and we're too reserved as a whole.
Although I will say that Mooby, sorry Monty, is one determined competitor in team games, and I don't think there's anyone on the US team can match his presence at the RC.
Sunday_Hacker
Release Your Inner Diablo
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- #154
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the_paulo
Euro target practice
Sorry JB, got it now. But I guess the question is, what will happen when it comes down to it? Will the little homeless guy be eaten by the Pringle monster?
fen_boy
Not a clown.
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Sorry JB, got it now. But I guess the question is, what will happen when it comes down to it? Will the little homeless guy be eaten by the Pringle monster?
Excellent.
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- #158
The bigger question is will the little guy be eaten by him.
the_paulo
Euro target practice
I wouldn't say it's so much that you guys feel like you 'have' to win, but as a whole, you're not afraid to show that you 'need' to win, and suffer the disappointments as equally as the successes.
interlooper
Wishing I was golfing now
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- #161
That is interesting. I read an article about a month ago that pretty much stated exactly what you said. The article was about the UK and certain commonwealth realms, such as Australia, that have imported some American lingo. The fear, in the author's eyes, was that the US culture may be adopted along with the linguistics. In particluar, the author was concerned that admiration for a good loser and deploring a poor winner would be lost. The author noted that their sport's champions didn't use to pump their fists in the air and ever throw tantrums or their racquets or clubs. And that their sports heroes weren't derided and hounded when they didn't win.
the_paulo
Euro target practice
I think most reasonable human beings would be able to respect a good loser over a poor winner, or is it really different in the US?
If that was the case, I'd definitely not want to see that creep in - but I don't believe that for a second. I wouldn't mind some of the US culture being adopted. In particular, the belief that you can be anything you want, and you can acheive anything you set your mind to. I always remember kids at my school being told to tone down their aspirations, and aim for something more 'realistic'. A bit sad.
It just seems that here, sometimes, we respect a good loser over any type of winner. As if it's boorish and brash to admit that you really want to win. It's not the done thing to aspire. Sometimes it's helpful to put a bit of pressure on the perennial loser, instead of putting the arm round them and saying it's all ok, maybe next time.
I really dislike a bad winner, but even in the US team - bad winners are few and far between.
If that was the case, I'd definitely not want to see that creep in - but I don't believe that for a second. I wouldn't mind some of the US culture being adopted. In particular, the belief that you can be anything you want, and you can acheive anything you set your mind to. I always remember kids at my school being told to tone down their aspirations, and aim for something more 'realistic'. A bit sad.
It just seems that here, sometimes, we respect a good loser over any type of winner. As if it's boorish and brash to admit that you really want to win. It's not the done thing to aspire. Sometimes it's helpful to put a bit of pressure on the perennial loser, instead of putting the arm round them and saying it's all ok, maybe next time.
I really dislike a bad winner, but even in the US team - bad winners are few and far between.
RxGus
Argyle Warrior
I read that article too- I think it was a pretty fascinating read, all things considered.
RxGus
Argyle Warrior
The entire american view on winning can be summed up in one quote from Vince Lombardi
"Winning isn't everything, it is the only thing"
And also by vince
"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all time thing. You don't win once in a while, you don't do things right once in a while, you do them right all the time. Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."
"Winning isn't everything, it is the only thing"
And also by vince
"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all time thing. You don't win once in a while, you don't do things right once in a while, you do them right all the time. Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."
the_paulo
Euro target practice
It's not that at all. It's not admitting that you're trying your heart out to win. In case you come in 2nd.
I understand. I can understand that, but I don't agree with it. I have always been taught that the only failure is to not try your hardest. I guess both the US and UK have a strong desire to win, it is just that the state of mind in dealing with losing is very different.
the_paulo
Euro target practice
Can't say I totally agree with it either. Somewhere in the middle of both would be ideal, but it takes a lot to shift ideologies at that level.
In saying all this, I'm not sure this psychology applies to the Euro team. Certainly, it applies to the general public and media perception, but these guys have been playing for long enough and striving to win that both teams must be full of self belief.
The main time I think this point of view can hold the US back is in situations like the Ryder Cup. When team sometimes needs to be valued more than individual success. Sure, the US has some great performances in team sports, but when these guys are used to teeing it up for themselves every week with the same attitude, it might be a little harder to make the switch from being 'the man' to being 'the team player'.
You make a great point about playing as a team. I think it might be a bit hard to switch.
the_paulo
Euro target practice
Might be a good thing for the US that you seem to have a crop of younger players breaking through. They all seem to be pulling for each other at the moment. Another advantage of being the underdog, it engenders a team spirit.
TC
Keg Thrower
paulo, i was watching the golf channel last night and it looks like monty's gonna have a tough decision. who to leave out, out of these four:
paddy
donald
rose
casey
paddy
donald
rose
casey
the_paulo
Euro target practice
VERY tough choice tc. Along with those, you might add Eduardo Molinari. He was looking good to make the team for a lot of the year, and now looks like missing out. Hanson winning last weekend has really mixed things up for Monty. Or is it the fact that those 4 you mention have opted to play the Barclay's and not travel to Gleneagles for the final qualifying event?
Jiminez has cancelled a week off to play at Gleneagles, to try to make sure of his place. I'd have kinda hoped at least one from your list would have given up on a possible payday to come over and try to qualify, but it seems they are either sticking to their word, or the money is too big a draw.
To answer the earlier question, I get the feeling Luke Donald would be the one to miss out. He's played alright this year, but seems to have gone along under the radar for most of it.
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- #173
I look at Paddy's game right now, much the same way I look at Tigers. Paddy would get picked based on his years past, not what he has done anytime recently.
TC
Keg Thrower
yeah, not sure what i'd do if in the same situation either. would i play the barclay's or go home, represent and make my team. i have a feeling that donald will be left out as well. i honestly don't think that paddy should be on the squad due to the shape of his game right now, but he has so much experience. casey's a machine when it comes to match play so he's a lock. man, not too much more time til the teams are all locked up and we can really start talking some smack!