Tiger & Ryder Cup

[JB]

There are rumors going around after his disaster so far in the WGC that Tiger will play in the PGA Championship and then skip the Ryder Cup and possibly the Fed Ex Cup.

Two things/questions come to mind as I ponder those rumors.

1. He may not have a choice in skipping the Ryder Cup if he does not win the PGA Championship. He would most likely be a Captains Choice, but for the 1st time that I can remember, it is not a lock.

2. If the rumors are true, does anybody look at it like quitting? Not sure where I fall on this one, but I could see both sides of the argument.

Then it brings the 3rd discussion on the subject, will his people and the media play it off that he is stepping away for personal reasons to sort things out, or will it finally be that his game needs work and he is hiring a coach to work on getting back?

So many questions about the man that is clearly only a shell of his former self on the golf course (right now) and obviously needs the off season here to get back in game shape.

 

[clam fist]

Bring back Butch .

 

[Tmex]

The thing that always gets with me him is instead of admitting he needs help he will just spin it as something else. He needs to take the year off imo. Get his personal issues sorted and then work on his game. People use golf as a way to get away. Not sure its a getaway at his level and stage in his life.

didnt he say he wasnt practicing? How can you think for one second youcan compete if you arent practicing at the pro level. I dont know if Tiger realizes he is playing with professionals sometimes.

Edit: wouldnt see it as quitting. But rather finally admitting his game and life needs work.

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[JB]

People use golf as a way to get away. Not sure its a getaway at his level and stage in his life.

But we can only go on his words and what he gives us (which is never much) and for months after he was outed, he said that golf was his escape and he looked forward to getting out there and that when he was on the course, it was his savior (summarizing of course).

 

[Esox]

If he man's up he'll say he's stepping back for personal reasons. They may fake an injury like they did before when he couldn't handle his "personal reasons." I wonder if he doesn't say he's pulling back if Pavin would have the guts to leave him off the team? He's pretty worthless as is.

While there are undoubtedly mechanics problems, and his putting seems atrocious, I believe his brain is shot. He's a mess personally. Well earned. Another year or three of struggling should be good. Then he can come back and be a top twenty golfer.

Kevin

 

[aubs88]

Opinion on whether he is quitting or not will always be split I believe. In the end it doesn't really matter how it looks. I think he needs time away from the game to get his head and the rest of his life back to some level of normalcy.

I also think he thought his talent would allow him to just "get by" but he didn't understand how bad his head was messed up. His people aren't very smart in my opinion so they likely won't advise him on the best way for him to explain his reasoning. It always appears to me they are thinking about the bottom line but fail to realize the bottom line will always suffer if he can't perform to the level he has made us expect of him.

 

[ddec]

I don't see it as quitting. I remember Butch Harmon in an interview at the beginning of the year saying that he thinks Tiger should play in the 4 majors this year and thats it. Take the rest of the time to get your life under control and then come back and be Tiger Woods again. By skipping the Fed Ex Cup...and possibly the Ryder Cup(choice might not be his on that one), I think that's what he is going to be doing. He can also use that time to evaluate his entire situation, with life and golf. Might be good for him, and in the long run, good for golf and the fans who like to watch him play.

I can see him skipping the fedex cup, but I am not sure he would turn down the Ryder Cup. just my thoughts

 

[JB]

I don't see it as quitting. I remember Butch Harmon in an interview at the beginning of the year saying that he thinks Tiger should play in the 4 majors this year and thats it. Take the rest of the time to get your life under control and then come back and be Tiger Woods again. By skipping the Fed Ex Cup...and possibly the Ryder Cup(choice might not be his on that one), I think that's what he is going to be doing. He can also use that time to evaluate his entire situation, with life and golf. Might be good for him, and in the long run, good for golf and the fans who like to watch him play.

You might be right. Plus, if he comes back and stinks again, everybody can use the excuse of rust again. HAHA

 

[staticline]

If he doesn't make the top 8, my guess is, in private, he will ask Pavin not to make him a Captain's Choice. That way he won't be the first to ever turn one down. It will also create a lot of back & forth for those players who are obviously playing better than him.

BUT, if he plays well in the PGA he could lock up a top8 spot and be an automatic for the RC. I don't see him wd'ing that event if he's an automatic.

 

[ddec]

You might be right. Plus, if he comes back and stinks again, everybody can use the excuse of rust again. HAHA

then we start talk about Dr. Gallea more too haha

not to thread jack...but does anyone think he should make a caddie change too? Not that Steve has been problems, but maybe time to start fresh

 

[JB]

If he doesn't make the top 8, my guess is, in private, he will ask Pavin not to make him a Captain's Choice. That way he won't be the first to ever turn one down. It will also create a lot of back & forth for those players who are obviously playing better than him.

BUT, if he plays well in the PGA he could lock up a top8 spot and be an automatic for the RC. I don't see him wd'ing that event if he's an automatic.

Im of the exact opposite. I think if he does not make the top 8, he walks away not making Pavin even have to discuss it.

 

[JB]

then we start talk about Dr. Gallea more too haha

not to thread jack...but does anyone think he should make a caddie change too? Not that Steve has been problems, but maybe time to start fresh

I dont have any issues with Gallea involving TW. I know MANY people that have had the same procedure done.

 

[ddec]

I dont have any issues with Gallea involving TW. I know MANY people that have had the same procedure done.

I dont have any issues with that either, but you can see where that will come up more if he takes the rest of the year off, comes back at Torrey Pines and shoots like he is this week.

 

[arydolphin]

First of all, if Tiger plays the PGA the way he did this week, there's no shot at getting into the top 8 for the Ryder Cup. The one advantage that Tiger would have in terms of captain's picks is that the picks are made relatively late in the Fedex Cup playoffs, not the day after the PGA as prior to 2008. That could allow him to play better in the Fedex Cup events...but the big IF is how many of those events he plays in. He's currently only qualified for the first event of the playoffs.

The other thing is that if he decides to skip the Fedex Cup and decline a captain's pick for the Ryder Cup, he's not shutting it down for the entire year. He's already committed to the HSBC Champions event in China in November, which is a WGC event, and has committed to the Australian Masters where he won last year. So unless he decides to withdraw from those events, it's not like he's going to take 5 months off and show up again next year on the West Coast. None of us truly know what his personal life is like right now, so I'm not even going to go there in terms of what he needs to do. From the golf side, I think he needs to have a coach of some sort. Throughout his whole career, even going back to his amateur days, he's always had a coach to work with him. Right now, he doesn't have a coach, and his ball striking is arguably the worst it's been in his entire professional career. Plus, guys that really know the golf swing like Peter Kostis are saying that his "angles" and alignment are all out of whack. He can try to watch video of himself all he wants, but he needs someone to give him another set of eyes for his swing.

 

[Tmex]

Great point. He never gives us much. I wss one those who thought his masters performance said everything but i was wrong. I think he really thought he was above playing with a clear mind. Like Esox said he tried to coast on talent. Im more inclined to take what he says now with skepticism where before I would have just believed him. Still a fan if his golf but he at some point needs to be honest with at least himself if noone else. Great point about the Ryder cup though. If he wins the PGA (93.6% chance he wont) I wonder if he would play.

But we can only go on his words and what he gives us (which is never much) and for months after he was outed, he said that golf was his escape and he looked forward to getting out there and that when he was on the course, it was his savior (summarizing of course).

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[Chunkylover77]

Tiger needs to play the PGA, miss the cut if he continues along as he is going, and just state he is shutting it down for the year. It's obvious he is not into it and at this point he's kind of just embarrassing himself. Shut it down. Take a few weeks off. Hire a swing coach(IMO Foley would be a great choice) and come back next year all fired up. He should not tee it up until he has the desire back. And firing Stevie would do nothing positive for him. Stevie is a great caddie and they are great friends. Making that change would not be a positive step IMO.

 

[JB]

Not waying he will, but it wouldnt be the first time he or others withdrew from events due to poor play, personal reasons, or undisclosed injuries. I believe that if he withdraws his name from Ryder Cup and Fedex Cup, he will pack it in for the year. Not sure that will happen, but if he does, I cannot see him heading to Aussie for the pay day.

 

[sacul1573]

If he man's up he'll say he's stepping back for personal reasons. They may fake an injury like they did before when he couldn't handle his "personal reasons." I wonder if he doesn't say he's pulling back if Pavin would have the guts to leave him off the team? He's pretty worthless as is.

While there are undoubtedly mechanics problems, and his putting seems atrocious, I believe his brain is shot. He's a mess personally. Well earned. Another year or three of struggling should be good. Then he can come back and be a top twenty golfer.

Kevin

I believe this about sums up my thoughs as well.

 

[Live2playmore]

His heads not right...even if he does qualify...he should withdraw or not accept an invite for the sake of the team. Matter of fact after the PGA, he shoud take the rest of year off and figure out where his heart is and get his personal life right...then golf will follow.

 

[Sunday_Hacker]

I gotta agree with most, its time to shut it down. we have all been waiting for him to flip the switch and it just isnt happening this year it appears. get a coach, get his head straight and his personal issues as resolved as possible and come back next year in better shape physically and mentally and see whats happens.

and no Ryder Cup top 8 or not he does not deserve it the way he is playing and will only hurt the team and be more of a distraction then an asset

 

[SW]

IMO the guy needs to play more, practice is great, but confidence is gained on the course. I def think he needs to hire a coach, and not some well known guru, but a lesser known person that won't attract the attention of a Ledbetter or the like. As to changing the caddie, yes, do it now. It's not a slight against Steve, but things get stale and maybe it would offer a spark to get a new voice on the bag. And from the looks of it this week, leave the driver in the bag, it's a liability at this point.

 

[arydolphin]

Not waying he will, but it wouldnt be the first time he or others withdrew from events due to poor play, personal reasons, or undisclosed injuries. I believe that if he withdraws his name from Ryder Cup and Fedex Cup, he will pack it in for the year. Not sure that will happen, but if he does, I cannot see him heading to Aussie for the pay day.

JB, you make a good point about players withdrawing for a variety of reasons, I just can't remember Tiger doing that in the past, prior to the car accident at Isleworth. Of course, everything has been different since that time, so he very well could withdraw from the Australian tournament. However, that tournament is the week after the event in China, that's what made it so convenient for Tiger last year.

Another thing I forgot about earlier: the really interesting thing would be if he skipped his own tournament (Chevron World Challenge or something like that) that is playing in December in California. If he doesn't play that, you'll know he's serious about getting away from tournament golf and getting his life in order.

 

[JB]

JB, you make a good point about players withdrawing for a variety of reasons, I just can't remember Tiger doing that in the past, prior to the car accident at Isleworth. Of course, everything has been different since that time, so he very well could withdraw from the Australian tournament. However, that tournament is the week after the event in China, that's what made it so convenient for Tiger last year.

Another thing I forgot about earlier: the really interesting thing would be if he skipped his own tournament (Chevron World Challenge or something like that) that is playing in December in California. If he doesn't play that, you'll know he's serious about getting away from tournament golf and getting his life in order.

Hasnt he skipped quite a few of his events over the last 12 months or so? Since his lies (I mean life) have been exposed, he is a different person and I dont think he would have any problem walking away. He has done so already.

 

[v3.0]

1. He may not have a choice in skipping the Ryder Cup if he does not win the PGA Championship. He would most likely be a Captains Choice, but for the 1st time that I can remember, it is not a lock.

2. If the rumors are true, does anybody look at it like quitting? Not sure where I fall on this one, but I could see both sides of the argument.

Then it brings the 3rd discussion on the subject, will his people and the media play it off that he is stepping away for personal reasons to sort things out, or will it finally be that his game needs work and he is hiring a coach to work on getting back?

1. I agree.

2. Tiger has always said he plays to win. If he thinks that is a low-probability cause right now he and pauses his golf that is just fine with me (it is not like I have any rights to him playing golf anyways!). And if he goes ahead with playing in the PGA Championship despite him feeling that winning is a low-probability cause, I will forgive that inconsistency, just because of what winning would mean to him. On the other hand, if he cancels out of the Ryder Cup, where his issues might negatively affect his team, that is fine with me also.

3. Doesn't matter much to me. Both his personal issues and his game can do with some work.

 

[arydolphin]

Hasnt he skipped quite a few of his events over the last 12 months or so? Since his lies (I mean life) have been exposed, he is a different person and I dont think he would have any problem walking away. He has done so already.

He definitely has done that because of his personal problems, I just don't recall him skipping events that he had already committed to this year, except for his own tournament back in December when all of his issues were coming to light. Of course, he could change all of that later this year by taking the rest of the year off. I saw your post in another thread where you used to be a huge Tiger fan...I'm in the same boat, I started playing the game the year after he won the Masters for the first time. I'm still a fan of his golf talents, but not of much else, and the way that he's playing right now is pretty disappointing. The "highlights" of his 3rd round from earlier today that was shown on CBS were awful, it looked like he wanted to be any place except for the golf course. That is shocking because earlier this year, he saw the golf course as a place to get away from his other problems.