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Titleist Seeks Preliminary Injunction Against Taylormade-adidas Golf

SuperStroke
It's probably more difficult and expensive to be a TM sheep, with the number of new lines they spit out!
 
I won't even comment on the lawsuit part of it and try to take sides or even pretend that I know the inside details of anything between Camilo Villegas and Acushnet, but I will comment on something that was posted that I take personally. I've been a member here since Feb of 2009 and I've been doing reviews and articles for THP since April of 2009. In that time I've reviewed a lot of products, there have been some really really good products that I've given a great review on and there have been some that flat out did not live up to my expectations and I've said that. The thing that attracted me to wanting to work with THP is that immediately I found that there was no biasness in the reviews I had read and there is never any negative sentiments toward any company and/or product. Simple fact is everyone here is a golf fanatic and if a product, company, piece of equipment, or anything else is going to help us play the game we love we're going to rave about it. On the other side of the coin if there is a product that promises something that they don't deliver we'll tell you. Each review I've done I know that regardless of whether or not the product is from a THP sponsor or just a small start up company all I am expected to do is tell it exactly how I see it.

While any of you weigh in on this topic please don't be ignorant on the topic of biasness and especially don't accuse anyone on the THP staff as being bias toward anything out there, it's ridiculous and frankly a bit disappointing.

That is all I have to say on this topic, other than that I see this whole lawsuit as two companies with more money than God pissing and moaning to one another. I'm not interested....
 
My opinion has nothing to do with gear from any company, I play and have played Titleist gear for years, mostly wedges, irons and gloves but now a putter. My opinion has to do with the way that certain companies market their products, the way they interact with the public and most importantly how they try to come out looking like they are being wronged when in the past they have been the person doing the wrong. Titleist is no saint in the golf world and they shouldn't be threatening another company over money that doesn't exist. No way in hell does this announcement stop people from buying their stuff, it's just a slap in the face that a pro is leaving them for a competitor and it was the same way when Phil left. Stories started coming out about how he was gonna ruin the Ryder Cup team by making the switch. Who do you think got the media to start that mess? I'm sure Acushnet had nothing to do with that.
 
I'm really trying to follow along with all of this. Are people pissed that there's 'bias' about Acushnet from THP or from THP members? I think it's more of the latter more than anything and since THP is all for 'Land of the Free, Home of the Brave' then that sentiment permeates throughout the site, especially this particular thread. THP itself may appear 'bias' but that's simply not the case. Especially when said vendor consistently shoots itself in the foot but not being overly accomadating with it's equipment, apparel, etc compared to other OEM's. Of course that's their right and perrogative but when forum members see and hear of this sort of thing the 'bias' takes on legs of it's own without any help or prodding from THP staff. I agree with you SD in that someone certainly is in trouble because someone was caught with their pants down in the wind but I think some people's sentiments and feeling are a little misdirected in this case
snicker.doodles said:
the negative Titleist sentiment here exists. you have to look through the cracks to see it.


what does TM have to gain by announcing now rather than at season end?? a lot. it's a business. a cut throat business about money. reverse the role and what if Acushnet had announced a big switch mid-stream taking one of TM's players? i dare say that a lot of people would be supportive and jump on the bandwagon when TM sued Acushnet for "intentional interference with a business relationship/contract".



TM's hand was forced because of the leak(s). someone is in trouble.
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JB said:
Huh???? Companies are invited to supply new equipment specifically for the outings. Its not up to us.
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it's up to you to deciide if you're going to provide it at the outings. if you invited someone....and they sent their product....and you left it at home....THAT would be crazy. you clearly didn't do that.


.....words not deeds show the true spirit. that is the basis of my opinion.
 
tcalloway1 said:
fourputt's right though, i feel as though they would only pursue this route if there was some sort of contractual breach.
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If there is a breach of contract, then yes they should pursue it. But isn't he still playing under the stipulations of the contract? I think it's fine that he signed for TM for next year and you know that leaks happen. TM should have not released a statement though, imo.

JB said:
Does anybody feel that the last "issue" with court cases hurt the Titleist brand in the eyes of public opinion? Will this?
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Probably not much. The public usually forgets minor stuff pretty quickly. And this is just another in a long line of lawsuits by many, many companies.

snicker.doodles said:
i know this site despises Acushnet and all of it's associations....at any rate....I LOVE MY TITLEIST PROV1x.
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A lot of people love their PROV1's and x's. I have never played them because they are more than I want to spend. But your other statement . . . huh?

tcalloway1 said:
i'd like to see posts where the powers that be at THP have ever said anything that shows despise towards Titleist (and acushnet products). i'm confused by your post SD, a lot actually. the only thing that's ever been said about them as a company by JB or GG, is that they won't bend their policies in order to accomodate theirs. i think that is fair. i'm entitled to my opinions just as much as anyone else on this forum, and a lot of their products just aren't my cup of tea. it would be nice if you would at least explain where your comment came from.
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I haven't seen anything either, tc. I haven't seen any reviews be anything but honest and unbiased. Some people may have an axe to grind with this site but to say something unsubstantiated leads you to wonder why they didn't back up their statements.

JB said:
I dont think Camilo has done anything wrong whatsoever. The problem lies with TM's press release. Them signing him to a contract is not the problem. None at all. Where is the outcry from Cobra announcing the signing of Edfors last week? Granted not the same level and he did not have an exclusive deal, but still a contract announcement and leaving his current club deals.

TM just should not have put out the release out, but I am sure it was a calculated decision based on the news being out and weighing out the pros and cons. That is on them. I wouldnt have done it. But as 1099 employees go, they have the right to sign and be signed at any time for future services rendered.
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I think Camilo has done everything right. Not his fault the leaks happened and not his fault TM put out a press release. He's still playing the equipment and as far as I've heard, has not mentioned this yet.

And as I mentioned earlier, yep, TM should have held off on putting out a press release on this.That kind of forced Titleit's hand.

tcalloway1 said:
who cares when he signs, he's still playing and wearing what he's obligated to and will til the end of the year.
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Yep, he still is. And hasn't said anything yet, right?

weezy109 said:
I mean he basically came out as a tm endorser halfway through his acushnet contract. But on the other hand if tm didn't mention shoes etc and only clubs and acushnet doesn't own cobra then do they really have a point?
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HE didn't say anything. I know this has been discussed already on both sides, so that's all I'm saying.

snicker.doodles said:
the negative Titleist sentiment here exists. you have to look through the cracks to see it.
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There are pros and cons about all equipment here. Some people view bias as people not agreeing with their point of view.

People are going to like some equipment better than others. But any bias does not and has never come from the site owners or staff writers. Can't control what the forum members opinions are when there are over 700 active members posting. Now if the forum was say, under 30 members, there wouldn't be as many differing opinions on equipment companies.



Wow, I just became the guy who quotes everything!
 
snicker.doodles said:
it's up to you to deciide if you're going to provide it at the outings. if you invited someone....and they sent their product....and you left it at home....THAT would be crazy. you clearly didn't do that.


.....words not deeds show the true spirit. that is the basis of my opinion.
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What are you talking about??? We have NEVER not supplied an item to an outing or demo or anything of that nature. If a company supplies a product we make sure it is tested and we make sure it gets a fair testing that is no different than any other product. Now if a company decides not to participate than that is their choice but I don't know what you are talking about with this statement...."it's up to you to deciide if you're going to provide it at the outings. if you invited someone....and they sent their product....and you left it at home....THAT would be crazy. you clearly didn't do that."
 
snicker.doodles said:
it's up to you to deciide if you're going to provide it at the outings. if you invited someone....and they sent their product....and you left it at home....THAT would be crazy. you clearly didn't do that.


.....words not deeds show the true spirit. that is the basis of my opinion.
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Just so I understand. Because I prefer other products, it is bias.

How is that different than any other person on a forum that likes what they like and discusses it? THP reviews speak for themselves and when we discuss a product it is without bias in any nature. Maybe some want to perceive bias as a way to understand a differing of opinion.
 
One thing to keep in mind Smallie.... we don't know that Camilo isn't the ultimate cause of the leak. It doesn't have to come from a press conference... just an unadvised word over a cold beer is often the beginnings of this sort of brouhaha.
 
We don't know that he IS the cause, either.

One thing is for certain. SOMEONE leaked it. But we don't know it was or was not Camilo. I should have added the word presumably or something similar, because I did say he did NOT say anything. Bad on me.
 
Fourputt said:
One thing to keep in mind Smallie.... we don't know that Camilo isn't the ultimate cause of the leak. It doesn't have to come freom a press conference... just an unadvised word over a cold beer is often the beginnings of this sort of brouhaha.
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I guess my question is who cares about the leak? These things happen all the time, sometimes on purpose sometimes by accident and the media reporting on a leak isn't a big deal, it's their job. It's what the companies decide to do with the leak that is the issue. Should TM have released that press release disclosing exactly what he will be playing and wearing? Maybe not, but it happened and now they have to deal with whatever happens from that. The only way it would matter who the leak was is if Camilo goes and make some public statement talking about the change which would then possibly breach his contract.

To be honest I feel bad for Acushnet for losing money on their ads with CV in it, however, I think this lawsuit is a bit ridiculous. I also think it's funny that people keep talking about Titleist equipment but the only thing that CV used that was Titleist was the ball, if anyone should be made it should be Cobra because he was playing all their irons. I haven't see a lawsuit from them yet???
 
I think I have a different understanding of the word "bias". I don't see it at all. I never picked up on it by the "tone". If you are testing equipment the whole point is to form an opinion. If you don't form an opinion how can you review it. THP is in the review biz. They probably miss the chance to look at some products because of their testing rules. I respect that they are sticking to their guns. It would be biased if they made exceptions for certain products and not others. That would be a bias IMO.
 
I don't think there was any way this news wasn't going to be leaked one way or another.

I think the whole issue must revolve around an ill-advised (or smart?) press release from TM.

Also, I think it's wholly possible for myself (or anyone else) to disagree with a company's business practices in certain areas, but still give their products a fair trial.
 
GolferGal said:
What are you talking about??? We have NEVER not supplied an item to an outing or demo or anything of that nature. If a company supplies a product we make sure it is tested and we make sure it gets a fair testing that is no different than any other product. Now if a company decides not to participate than that is their choice but I don't know what you are talking about with this statement...."it's up to you to deciide if you're going to provide it at the outings. if you invited someone....and they sent their product....and you left it at home....THAT would be crazy. you clearly didn't do that."
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G....i said you guys made the choice to INCLUDE what was sent. and that it would be crazy for you NOT TO INCLUDE. I'm not sure you can use the "we included their products in our reviews and testing so we're not biased" as proof. you're in this for the business....


and JB....because you don't like it...no, you're not biased. but the off handed comments that are made about a company and their products may lead people to believe that you have a biased opinion of that company and their products.


to each their own. it's really that simple. but sometimes...other people need help forming their opinions and find themselves following the herd.
 
So opinions dont make someone biased, but comments in regards to those opinions do. Thanks for explaining.
 
clam fist said:
I think I have a different understanding of the word "bias". I don't see it at all. I never picked up on it by the "tone". If you are testing equipment the whole point is to form an opinion. If you don't form an opinion how can you review it. THP is in the review biz. They probably miss the chance to look at some products because of their testing rules. I respect that they are sticking to their guns. It would be biased if they made exceptions for certain products and not others. That would be a bias IMO.
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Well said.
 
the only thing is everyone at THP (staff or not) has always made off handed comments about numerous companies at one time or another. if the perception it that it seems to center around one co. then maybe that co. tends to eff up more ofthen then the others or simply just 'doesn't get it' and shows that side over and over again
snicker.doodles said:
and JB....because you don't like it...no, you're not biased. but the off handed comments that are made about a company and their products may lead people to believe that you have a biased opinion of that company and their products.
.
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snicker.doodles said:
i have never said anything about the reviews being biased....so that can be put to rest. and honestly...you'd would be crazy not provide the equipment at the outings....they provided it to you for review and sharing....it might look kinda bad if you excluded them.
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snicker.doodles said:
it's up to you to deciide if you're going to provide it at the outings. if you invited someone....and they sent their product....and you left it at home....THAT would be crazy. you clearly didn't do that.

.....words not deeds show the true spirit. that is the basis of my opinion.
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snicker.doodles said:
G....i said you guys made the choice to INCLUDE what was sent. and that it would be crazy for you NOT TO INCLUDE. I'm not sure you can use the "we included their products in our reviews and testing so we're not biased" as proof. you're in this for the business....
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That's THREE times you've implied that THP has a choice to leave out any companies product that was sent for reviewing and/or demo. Other places might do that, but at THP it is not an option. If a company sends out an item for review, you can bet there will be an HONEST review on it. Most likely it will be taken to the range and have an assortment of people test it and give their thoughts on it too. These opinions will always be included in the review.

If the company sends a product for a demo day you can bet the farm that THP will include it along with everything else. Other people/forums might decide not to include something for review or demo, but if it's sent here, it is 100% going to be included in whatever way the company requested. Leaving it out is only an option if the company requests it not be included. That has happened, by the way, that a company chose not to participate, perhaps that's why you think THP doesn't include or has the choice not to include anything?
 
Smallville said:
That's THREE times you've implied that THP has a choice to leave out any companies product that was sent for reviewing and/or demo. Other places might do that, but at THP it is not an option. If a company sends out an item for review, you can bet there will be an HONEST review on it. Most likely it will be taken to the range and have an assortment of people test it and give their thoughts on it too. These opinions will always be included in the review.

If the company sends a product for a demo day you can bet the farm that THP will include it along with everything else. Other people/forums might decide not to include something for review or demo, but if it's sent here, it is 100% going to be included in whatever way the company requested. Leaving it out is only an option if the company requests it not be included. That has happened, by the way, that a company chose not to participate, perhaps that's why you think THP doesn't include or has the choice not to include anything?
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This was so well said and is 100% true of everything we do and stand for.
 
It is very easy to see what the trends are on this site, via the users signatures.

Titleist is not liked to much, and TM is held above most others. As a person who dislikes both TM and Titleist it is pretty noticeable.

Just because the user trends seem to follow the above, does not mean the site ownership is biased. OEM's send clubs, and they get tested. It is pretty cut and dry.

Personally I think Titleist just got lazy sitting at the top. The clubs I have hit are meh at best and the balls just can not compare (for me). A prov1x can not hold a candle to the zstarx, the ball flight, distance and consistency blows the prov1x right out the water (for me).IMO Now they are realizing market share is getting lost and they are starting to panic, loosing market share in an economy that already sucks is a very scary thing for large companies.

On a side note and this is just my opinion, in order for a site/review/magazine to remain 100% unbiased they should not allow any manufactures to sponsor/buy ads the site/magazine. Think Top Gear on BBC, they are unbiased as they do not allow commercials on the channels. If something sucks they say it does and on the same hand when it is great they will praise it. Once you start accepting funds for ad's the waters muddy quickly.

With the short time I have been a member here I find it hard to believe that JB or any staff would purposefully leave clubs out that they have received for testing. This place seems pretty damn ethical.
 
i've just finished reading through the past few pages and i must admit that i am a bit confused and somewhat angry. doodles, it's obvious that you are implying something and i wish that you would just come on out and say it. in fact, i have a suspicion that perhaps someone is spouting off at the mouth and probably filling you full of bullsh*t!!!

ironically, he was the same guy, that at points in the past (before you were a forum member) that always stood up for the integrity of THP, and their honesty, their unbiased reviews, and their policies. it's fact, you are more than welcome to go back and read his posts.

now go and marinate on that for a little while!!!
 
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oh snap. make that super snap.
 
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