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Golf course conditions, ask the specialist.

Fourputt said:
Agreed! Some great info here.... maybe dispel a few myths.

Next topic... pitch mark repair. I rarely see anyone do it correctly, yet they are utterly convinced that what they do (prying up from under the crater) leaves the green better that what I do (pressing in around the perimeter of the crater). In the short term they may be right, as the green looks better immediately, but most often dies in that spot and takes longer to heal in the long run.

Am I right Mike???
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Ball marks or pitch marks, those indentations caused when a ball lands sharply on a soft green, have been ruining good putts since the days of Old Tom Morris. Unrepaired ball marks take two to three weeks to properly heal, leaving behind unsightly, uneven putting surfaces. On the other hand, a repaired ball mark only takes half that time to heal.
Beginner or pro, it is your responsibility as a golfer to fix your own marks. If you're truly a steward of the game, you'll fix any others you see while your partners are putting. There's really not much to it, but there are a few guidelines you should follow when making these repairs.

• Use a pronged ball mark repair tool, knife, key or tee
• Insert it at the edges of the mark -- not the middle of the depression.
• Bring the edges together with a gentle twisting motion, but don't lift the center. Try not to tear the grass.
• Smooth the surface with a club or your foot. You're done when it's a surface you would want to putt over.

I hope this answered your question.
 
One-T said:
Hey Mike, I just wanted to say welcome! You have already proven to be an added asset to THP. You opened a can of worms, I hope your fingers are ready to type! hehe. Thanks for all of this wonderful info. One thing I heard is that on bermuda grass, if the green is shiney you are going withthe grain, if its dark, you are against the grain. Thats my two cents. hehe
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One-T

You are correct. The underside of the leaf is a lighter color. If you ever wondered how golf course superintendents get a stripe effect that’s the reason. When the mower travels against the growth habit or grain it pushes the leaf over in that direction. One direction light color the other dark.

Miketurf
 
this is one of the best threads ever! I dont have a question but want to say thanks for joining THP land miketurf! very glad to have you and your knowledge aboard!
 
Thanks everyone for such kind words. Working in the golf business sometimes it’s difficult to get a golfers perspective on certain topics. I hope to learn as much as I inform, hopefully!

If ever you have a situation or condition on the course that causes an unhappy or troublesome round sometimes it’s just a matter of communication. With the added pressures of this unusually hot and humid summer superintendents are fighting the good fight just to stay even with conditions. I have just visited several clubs that are unfortunately losing the battle and turf loss was extensive.

Aerification season just around the corner, I’ll post a special message with the many reasons why this cultural practice is so important; maybe you can pass along the information to the rest of the foursome.

Next time you see the super or a member of the crew wave and say hi, it will make their day!

Thanks for reading,
Miketurf
 
Thanks Mike for a great thread. Everyone has covered most of what I would like to hear, but wanted to thank you for your insights. Actually, I do have two questions:

1. Do you see encroachment of grasses from landowners who live close to the course and does it become any problem at all?

2. How is it possible to better educate the masses about fixing divots properly? The course I play is well maintained, yet I fix three divots on every green and end up putting over a huge depression constantly. Seems like the pro-shop could do more to mention the problem ahead of most groups?
 
very educational thread... loving it so far

i have a question
why are lower end courses fairways really hard(impossible to take a divot) and higher end courses fairways nice and spongey?
yet the greens are the complete opposite... the lower end courses have really slow greens and the high end has fast greens?
 
miketurf said:
Lynford:
If greens are frozen solid, the soil or sand below, the turf plant is generally dormant and in most situations it cannot be damaged. When a frost occurs when turf is still actively growing the cells in the leaf and crown of the plant are mostly liquid. If the frost is severe enough the leaf and crown of the plant under foot traffic can shatter, like stepping on an ice cube causing the individual cells to shatter and turn black. In most cases the plant can recover but the putting surface will be severely compromised by black intended foot prints.

So, totally frozen, grass dormant, frost covered, grass alive and very susceptible to damage.

I hope this cleared-up the frozen truth!
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Explains it perfectly, thanks Mike.
 
Seems that ballmarks – pitchmarks are a hot topic, with you permission I’ll post a graphic explaining the proper way to repair your well played shot to the green.

_wsb_698x358_ballmarkrepair2.jpg


Miketurf
 
thedue said:
Thanks Mike for a great thread. Everyone has covered most of what I would like to hear, but wanted to thank you for your insights. Actually, I do have two questions:

1. Do you see encroachment of grasses from landowners who live close to the course and does it become any problem at all?

2. How is it possible to better educate the masses about fixing divots properly? The course I play is well maintained, yet I fix three divots on every green and end up putting over a huge depression constantly. Seems like the pro-shop could do more to mention the problem ahead of most groups?
Click to expand...

Encroachment of unwanted turf species is a problem in some areas, particularly Bermuda into cool season grasses. When Bermuda is mowed the clippings can contain stolen or root parts that can become viable plants. Lawn services are notorious for contaminating cool season turf with Bermuda in the transition zone of the US. The transition zone is an area across the middle of the east and Midwest that can sustain Bermuda, Zoysia, Fescue, ryegrass, bentgrass and Bluegrass.
 
I know I see a lot of players fix their divots by lifting the grass up and correct me if Im wrong Mike but doesnt that actually have the opposite effect and kill the area? I had no idea the proper way to fix a divot until I bought a Nike repair tool and it came with instructions pretty much like what you just posted.
 
bogey_russ said:
very educational thread... loving it so far

i have a question
why are lower end courses fairways really hard(impossible to take a divot) and higher end courses fairways nice and spongey?
yet the greens are the complete opposite... the lower end courses have really slow greens and the high end has fast greens?
Click to expand...

Bogey_russ:

It’s mostly about money. But I believe firm and fast conditions should be the standard. It makes the golf course play so much better and puts more premiums on shot-making rather than flying the ball to the green, the bump-and-run shot is all but vanished due to soft fairway and green conditions.

I noticed your from San Diego, I worked at Singing Hills once upon a time, do get of to El Cajon? I also worked for the Spanos family in NorCal, the owners of the Chargers.

Cheers, miketurf
 
Good question... I never am able to get the grass to cover the ball mark. Is that normal too? should there be a little crater in the middle?
OEM Kevin said:
I know I see a lot of players fix their divots by lifting the grass up and correct me if Im wrong Mike but doesnt that actually have the opposite effect and kill the area? I had no idea the proper way to fix a divot until I bought a Nike repair tool and it came with instructions pretty much like what you just posted.
Click to expand...
 
miketurf said:
Bogey_russ:

It’s mostly about money. But I believe firm and fast conditions should be the standard. It makes the golf course play so much better and puts more premiums on shot-making rather than flying the ball to the green, the bump-and-run shot is all but vanished due to soft fairway and green conditions.

I noticed your from San Diego, I worked at Singing Hills once upon a time, do get of to El Cajon? I also worked for the Spanos family in NorCal, the owners of the Chargers.

Cheers, miketurf
Click to expand...

i lived in pacific beach forever... didnt get out to el cajon too often... are you from there?
im hoping the spanos fam doesnt move the chargers to LA... got season ticks *wink wink*?
lol


so money aside...
why are some fw's hardpan as opposed to spongey?
lack of watering? cuz after good storm all fw's are still not created equal
and the speed of greens how do you get them faster?
 
so money aside...
why are some fw's hardpan as opposed to spongey?
lack of watering? cuz after good storm all fw's are still not created equal
and the speed of greens how do you get them faster?[/QUOTE]

Bogey-russ, I’ll start with your fairway question, but remember, when they say it’s not about the money, it’s normally all about the money!

Fairways take on a lot of traffic, mowers, carts even foot traffic- they all tend to compact soils, especially when the soils are wet. Most affluent clubs can afford to aerify fairways pulling or coring out a piece of soil or piercing the surface with a solid tine or knife to help relieve tightly compacted soils, help the roots develop and allowing water to penetrate. Add to that the you live in a climate that never freezes, freezing and thawing help relieve compaction by the expansion of ground water (freeze) and contraction after a thaw and finally evaporation.

The greens question; many books have been written, the short answer is:
Less water (hand watering yields better results, puts water where it’s needed)
Less fertilizer (fertilizer makes leaf blade wide and soft)
More topdressing (sand topdressing firms the surface, firm is most always fast)
Cut shorter and more often (no surprise here, double cutting greens not uncommon to top golf clubs, with 22 inch walk behind mowers)
Roll more often (smooth does not always mean fast, but it can improve ball roll, at least once per day)
And Repeat as necessary! Many times per month!

Today the average annual maintenance budget for a top 18-hole private club is in excess of one million dollars, 70% or greater is labor!
 
To All:

I will still answer questions that you post here, but if the urge to learn more about golf course maintenance and the business side of this great sport is too great visit my blog “”. Most might find it boring but some may like and develop an understanding that escapes most golfers.

Cheers, drinks all around!
 
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very cool... thanks for answering

you da man!
 
I have a question and I’ve been wondering if this is perhaps some sort of trend.

Here in Long Island, NY there is a sort of dividing line between older and newer courses meaning that the older courses date back from the 30’s to the ‘60’s while the newer courses date from the ‘80’s forward.

The greens on most (if not all) of the older courses all seem to be what I call “sand based” while many (if not most) of the newer greens seem to be what I’ll call “clay based”. I realize that greens are not just a single type of soil and are constructed in layers with perched water tables and all that stuff.
There is however a noticeable difference in the way in which both types of greens play. The older greens tend to hold shots very well, are not very “bouncy” and repairs of pitch marks are very easy (think Bethpage). The newer greens (Great Rock and others) tend to be extremely bouncy, they seem to hold footprints more when wet and repairing a pitch mark can take a bit of time as the soil is very firm and often difficult to manipulate.

It seems to me that the more clayey soils are being used in an effort to hold more water (they don’t seem to drain very well) in the root zone and to speed recovery, but at the cost of (to me anyway) overall playability. The older, sandier greens drain very well and are extremely playable but I suspect they have issues with water holding and plant recovery.

So my question is: Is there (or has there been) a trend or purposeful change in the way in which greens are constructed in the Northeast or in cooler climates in general? If so, is there a right way or wrong way to do this because there are some newer courses that I won’t go near because of these bouncy, sometimes soggy greens?

I understand the need for water conservation and that clay soils are more nutrient oriented than sandy soils, but there has to be a way to make the former more playable than they appear to be now.

Thoughts?


-JP
 
JP:

Here’s the short version. Prior to the 60’s most greens were built using native soil or a mix of sand and soil. These greens performed well and demands on green speed were minimal and shape of greens was dictated on surface drainage. Dr. Ferguson from Texas design a green profile based on what you mentioned, a perched water table. Sand over a gravel base (now know as USGA Spec Greens), once the sand becomes saturated with water the water table will break and drain into the gavel below and subsequently into tile lines to keep the green at a prescribed balance between water and air for optimum plant health.

When dry, sand greens have a characteristic bounce, soil greens have more "give" depending on the type of soil. However, most old soil greens have been topdressed for years with straight sand giving them the same surface characteristics of sand greens. Not many true soil greens remain in the US without some modification or with a sand amendment.

Sand greens give the golf course architect the ability to create much more movement on the greens surface because we no longer depend on surface drainage - swales, hills, mounds and rolling greens could drain all over the surface into the profile. This is important for the popularity of modern golf course architects like Tom Fazio, Rees Jones and Pete Dye with their radically different greens surfaces.

greenprofile.jpg


So in reality newer greens are all sand, like the profile above, and older greens are soil based with a layer of sand above, sometimes up to six inches giving a surface similar to an all sand green but perhaps playing dryer or harder because the soil below may “wick” moisture from the sand above.

I hope this answers your question, Miketurf.
 
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^ Such great information! Thanks Miketurf.
 
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