Slow Play Suggestions

[bpipe95]

I can not believe people are getting this involved over riding v. walking.

Like every other god damn thing in this game, it is personal preference. If you wanna ride you ride, if you wanna walk you walk.

Do what you like and be done with it.

I mean, we have bigger things to worry about, like it being shark week on the discovery channel.

 

[Wingnut]

There is nothing to disagree or agree about. If the course is laid out like Sarasota National for instance in which on two holes you have over a half a mile to the tee box and close to 400 yards in between every other tee box, walking is not an option. It would take 7 hours to play that course walking.

I suppose those that are seniors that cannot walk anymore should just give up the game altogether despite enjoying it?

Point taken JB, it was just my opinion. Obviously I need to reassess my opinion. I just don't like carts and guys that see a cart as nothing more as a way to carry around beers the whole day.

 

[JB]

Point taken JB, it was just my opinion. Obviously I need to reassess my opinion. I just don't like carts and guys that see a cart as nothing more as a way to carry around beers the whole day.

I have never had a beer during a round of golf. I take the game quite seriously. I have also walked over a hundred courses before. And for me, I would DEFINITELY ride over walk every time. I can take a walk anytime I want. When I got to the course, i want to swing hte club and play the game. You will rarely hear a person that plays this game in carts say one thing about a walking golfer (except pace of play, but that is true with cart of not). Yet the holier than thou attitude of some on here that it "must be this way" because its the way I like it, is ridiculous if you ask me.


And to add one thing, (not directed at anybody in particular). I will say it before and I will say it again. THe elitest attitude that "things have been done this way, so they have to be done this way forever" and the looking down on people that are different is what has kept far too many away from this game for far too long.

 

[Hanks]

Well said....Golf seems to be going through another transition with Tiger not doing well (less ratings, etc) so the game itself needs all the support it can get from as many people it can get. The old, elitist, country club attitude needs to be dropped.

I have never had a beer during a round of golf. I take the game quite seriously. I have also walked over a hundred courses before. And for me, I would DEFINITELY ride over walk every time. I can take a walk anytime I want. When I got to the course, i want to swing hte club and play the game.


And to add one thing, (not directed at anybody in particular). I will say it before and I will say it again. THe elitest attitude that "things have been done this way, so they have to be done this way forever" and the looking down on people that are different is what has kept far too many away from this game for far too long.

 

[Wingnut]

I have never had a beer during a round of golf. I take the game quite seriously. I have also walked over a hundred courses before. And for me, I would DEFINITELY ride over walk every time. I can take a walk anytime I want. When I got to the course, i want to swing hte club and play the game. You will rarely hear a person that plays this game in carts say one thing about a walking golfer (except pace of play, but that is true with cart of not). Yet the holier than thou attitude of some on here that it "must be this way" because its the way I like it, is ridiculous if you ask me.


And to add one thing, (not directed at anybody in particular). I will say it before and I will say it again. THe elitest attitude that "things have been done this way, so they have to be done this way forever" and the looking down on people that are different is what has kept far too many away from this game for far too long.

ok you win.....I am sorry if I offended you, let me take this time to apologize for my crass behavior and view.

 

[JB]

ok you win.....I am sorry if I offended you, let me take this time to apologize for my crass behavior and view.

Its not about a win and lose. I was not offended at all. Nor did I find your behavior crass. With that being said, we (golfers a whole) have been looked down upon as stuck up, rude, old fashioned, etc... for decades and part of that is perception from the outside.

 

[Wingnut]

:deadhorse: ok ok, I have nothing more to say

 

[JPsuff]

...the more you turn golf into a get out of the cart, hit and get back into the cart experience the closer you bring it to a video game...

Man, do I agree with that!

And I would add (in my own humble opinion, of course) that it turns golf into more of a "to-do list" item than an actual participatory activity.



-JP

 

[JB]

Man, do I agree with that!

And I would add (in my own humble opinion, of course) that it turns golf into more of a "to-do list" item than an actual participatory activity.



-JP

Why? I love playing golf. I Play 2-3 times a week. It is hardly a to do list item and I cherish my time out there. Riding to my ball rather than walking to my ball does not change that at all for many.

 

[Hawk]

I'm pretty good at video game golf, but I struggle on the course at times. I also spend two lunch hours a week practicing on the range and green. I've never practiced video games or had the passion to get better at them. Playing with a cart is nothing more than that, playing with a cart. Some like it, some hate it, and others (like me) could go either way.

I don't play any better walking than riding. My best scores were riding, but I'm not attribituting it to the cart. I attribute it the practice I put into my game.

I would venture to say that slow play, elitism, and cost are far more of a threat to participation than the prevalence of cart play.

 

[JB]

I would venture to say that slow play, elitism, and cost are far more of a threat to participation than the prevalence of cart play.

Well said. Those are the three that keep people away when we discuss it with them.

 

[JPsuff]

Why? I love playing golf. I Play 2-3 times a week. It is hardly a to do list item and I cherish my time out there. Riding to my ball rather than walking to my ball does not change that at all for many.

But it does for some, such as myself and I find that there are advantages to walking that carts simply cannot provide.

I don't play any better walking than riding. My best scores were riding, but I'm not attribituting it to the cart. I attribute it the practice I put into my game.

I would venture to say that slow play, elitism, and cost are far more of a threat to participation than the prevalence of cart play.

I believe that I play much better when walking and although slow play is something that can be caused by any golfer - walking or riding - I have found over the years that riders tend to "wander" far more than walkers and that in itself tends to slow things down.

Lastly, in my opinion, riding in a cart takes the "soul" out of the game.


-JP

 

[Hawk]

There is no doubt that people who don't know how to use a cart can quickly slow down a course. I've encountered slowness from walkers too. It's more of a "people" thing than a "do they walk or ride" thing.

Like I said, I like both.

 

[JB]

But it does for some, such as myself and I find that there are advantages to walking that carts simply cannot provide.



I believe that I play much better when walking and although slow play is something that can be caused by any golfer - walking or riding - I have found over the years that riders tend to "wander" far more than walkers and that in itself tends to slow things down.

Lastly, in my opinion, riding in a cart takes the "soul" out of the game.


-JP

I have no issue with walkers JP and none with the fact that some prefer it. I do have issue with someone telling others how the game should be played if they are playing by the rules and enjoying the game. The goal is to get more people to enjoy the game and enjoy it for many years to come, not deprive people of the ability to play or keep them from wanting to play.

As for slow play, you may be right with low handicaps, but with higher handicapped players that miss right and left, there is NO WAY that walkers are faster or even as fast. Its just not the case.

What people seem to forget is that they always say that its teh courses fault because they say its faster and want to get more golfers out there. Do people not think they have researched it and found that it is faster to have people play in a cart? The upkeep on carts at courses is not cheap and having them in their lease deals is not cheap. There is no doubt about it, that on AVERAGE a riding golfer will play faster than a walking golfer.

 

[JPsuff]

As for slow play, you may be right with low handicaps, but with higher handicapped players that miss right and left, there is NO WAY that walkers are faster or even as fast. Its just not the case.

It depends on who's walking and who's riding. I'm sure that everyone here has walked up on to a tee box and was greeted by the sight of four guys in two carts "patrolling" the rough on one side of the hole looking for someone's ball and have also noticed that there are at least two balls sitting nicely in the fairway with an empty green ahead an no one near either of those balls.

I submit that such a scenario is far less likely when people are walking than when riding simply because walking takes energy and most people wouldn't be inclined to walk clear across a fairway to help search for a ball especially when their own ball is sitting in the fairway and the green is emptying out.

The reason for this is obvious - the cart.

People will wander more in a cart because they see themselves as being able to do so quickly but they don't realize that when they get to wherever they've wander to, they spend an inordinate amount of time there and are quite often "late" getting back to their own business.

I've seen this happen hundreds of times as I'm sure many others have as well.

What people seem to forget is that they always say that its teh courses fault because they say its faster and want to get more golfers out there. Do people not think they have researched it and found that it is faster to have people play in a cart? The upkeep on carts at courses is not cheap and having them in their lease deals is not cheap. There is no doubt about it, that on AVERAGE a riding golfer will play faster than a walking golfer.

So which is it?

On the one hand you say that "it is faster to have people play in a cart". but in the very next sentence you say that "on AVERAGE a riding golfer will play faster than a walking golfer"

JB, you've been around this game long enough to know that there exists just as much research which can "prove" that walking is faster or at least as fast as riding so I'm more inclined to call it a push and leave it at that.


-JP

 

[JB]

I said the same thing and not sure what you are missing.. On average it is faster to have people ride than walk. A course would want walkers if it was faster. No upkeep and less cost to the club upfront.

 

[Bridges]

Walking is way slower. You stick 1 guy in a cart and have 1 guy walking i promise you the guy in the cart will beat the guy walking 100 out of 100 times.
You could even test it for one hole. Guy in cart tees off first, middle of fairway with his drive, guy walking tees off, middle of fairway on his drive both balls are dead even. Guy in cart puts his club in the bag and off he goes, guy walk puts his club in bag, picks up bag then walks. The guy in the cart can EASILY hit his second shot into the green and be almost to his ball on the green by time the guy walking even hits his second shot. Take this through a hole round of golf and the guy in the cart finishes way ahead of the guy walking, he would have to RUN after every shot just to keep up with the cart.

 

[JPsuff]

Walking is way slower. You stick 1 guy in a cart and have 1 guy walking i promise you the guy in the cart will beat the guy walking 100 out of 100 times.
You could even test it for one hole. Guy in cart tees off first, middle of fairway with his drive, guy walking tees off, middle of fairway on his drive both balls are dead even. Guy in cart puts his club in the bag and off he goes, guy walk puts his club in bag, picks up bag then walks. The guy in the cart can EASILY hit his second shot into the green and be almost to his ball on the green by time the guy walking even hits his second shot. Take this through a hole round of golf and the guy in the cart finishes way ahead of the guy walking, he would have to RUN after every shot just to keep up with the cart.

Well, assuming that there are no groups ahead of these players and assuming that they're actually racing against each other, you're absolutely right.

But if you take the same two guys playing WITH each other and both employ basic golf etiquette and combine that with the fact that there are groups ahead of them, then there's no difference.

In fact, one of the golf rags did a study a few years back on this very subject and they had two foursomes of what they described as "typical weekend golfers" and they had each go out; one in carts and the other walking, on a course with no one ahead of them and according to the article, the times for both were virtually identical.

The reason for this of course is that not everyone hit their ball perfectly each time and that when the poor shots and other time-consuming behaviors not related to movement on the course are taken into consideration (read: reality), there really isn't much of a difference between the two.

That's why when some pro-shop dude tells me that the reason they "require" carts is to speed up play, I have all I can do to not laugh in the guy's face.


-JP

 

[Bridges]

ok. your right. I am wrong for thinking people in a cart playing golf is faster than people walking.

 

[JB]

Well, assuming that there are no groups ahead of these players and assuming that they're actually racing against each other, you're absolutely right.

But if you take the same two guys playing WITH each other and both employ basic golf etiquette and combine that with the fact that there are groups ahead of them, then there's no difference.

In fact, one of the golf rags did a study a few years back on this very subject and they had two foursomes of what they described as "typical weekend golfers" and they had each go out; one in carts and the other walking, on a course with no one ahead of them and according to the article, the times for both were virtually identical.

The reason for this of course is that not everyone hit their ball perfectly each time and that when the poor shots and other time-consuming behaviors not related to movement on the course are taken into consideration (read: reality), there really isn't much of a difference between the two.

That's why when some pro-shop dude tells me that the reason they "require" carts is to speed up play, I have all I can do to not laugh in the guy's face.


-JP

Any chance you can find that article? I definitely missed that one and would love to read it.

My biggest question for you then is. If the times are the same, why on earth would a course prefer carts? With times being the same, they cannot fit more onto the course. They have to spend THOUSANDS on cart leases, charging, storage, upkeep, etc...

As has been pointed out by a few in this thread, they use carts and prefer carts for money. Plain and simple. It is not for the convenience or preference of golfers according to most of the walkers on this thread, it is about money. So if it is only about money and the time to play is the same for riding and walking, why buy the carts?

Yes people miss shots, but people walking miss shots too and when they do it takes twice as much time to get to the ball.

 

[Golf Chick]

One of my biggest problems about long rounds is the waiting. I'm not there to wait. I'm there to golf. I can slow down my tempo if needed, but not enough to combat a 10 minute wait at each tee. It throws me off with all of the starting and stopping.

This bugs me as well. By the time I'm done waiting and I'm ready to tee off, my arm gets cold hee hee Need to keep it warm/hot like the baseball pitchers

 

[Jeanthemachine]

Carts are here to stay because:
a) many people prefer to ride and courses want their business.
b) many people need them because of physical issues and courses want their business
c) courses make money on cart rentals

 

[JPsuff]

Any chance you can find that article? I definitely missed that one and would love to read it.

My biggest question for you then is. If the times are the same, why on earth would a course prefer carts? With times being the same, they cannot fit more onto the course. They have to spend THOUSANDS on cart leases, charging, storage, upkeep, etc...

As has been pointed out by a few in this thread, they use carts and prefer carts for money. Plain and simple. It is not for the convenience or preference of golfers according to most of the walkers on this thread, it is about money. So if it is only about money and the time to play is the same for riding and walking, why buy the carts?

Yes people miss shots, but people walking miss shots too and when they do it takes twice as much time to get to the ball.

Good questions.

I suppose that there are a variety of reasons from real (revenue) to perceived (faster play) to convenience as well as an alternative to walking for those who don't wish to or can't walk 18 holes.

One of the things about mandatory cart courses that I've noticed is that in order to reduce wear to the course itself so that cart costs to them are lessened is to grow the fairways longer and of course the drawback to a good golfer is the lack of a true "fairway lie". But I think the reasoning on the part of the courses is that most weekend golfers don't really care for tight lies so growing the fairways longer actually is a win-win for the course because they can make some extra money from cart rentals without incurring a large amount of maintenance costs for upkeep, while offering "fluffy" lies to their clientele.

Then there's perception.

The idea of using a golf cart and being able to stow a lot of additional gear such as coolers and extra everything along with the convenience of having a portable sunshade, drink holders and the general "fun" aspect of driving a motorized vehicle (which has a sort of child-like fun quality to it) as well as the somewhat elitist aspect of being transported as opposed to walking all help to "sell" the public on the idea of carts being the preferred way in which to move around a course.

And as I've said before, I have no problem with any of that other than the inability to access some really nice courses simply because the option to walk doesn't exists. In other words, I don't mind co-existing with carts, I just don't want walking to be replaced by them.

As for the article, I have no idea how I would get a copy of it. I just remember reading it in either Golf magazine or Golf Digest and it stuck in my mind. As far as when it appeared or in what issue, I have no idea.

If you know anyone associated with either of those magazines, perhaps you could mention the article and maybe they can locate it.


-JP

 

[JB]

I have emailed both publications. GD responded and said that they dont believe it was theirs. (they also did not think it would be close, they said 25 minute difference). And Golf has not responded as of yet.

 

[Sunday_Hacker]

I would think at least a 25 min difference