Study shows Toyota's, "SUA" problem mostly due to driver error

[Badger_Golfer]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/13/autos/Toyota_stock/index.htm

The U.S. Transportation department has been analyzing data from recorders on Toyota vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration. According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, the analysis has found that throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged at the time the cars crashed.

The results, if correct, suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly holding down the gas pedal when they intended to hit the brakes, according to the Journal.

:clapp:

 

[RxGus]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/13/autos/Toyota_stock/index.htm

:clapp:

I am NOT surprised by this... at all.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Nor am I. Theres so many reasons why I could see the media and our goverment conspiring to run a smear campaign on Toyota that it doesnt surprise me at all.
From the start I said, "wheres the scientific data that proves there is a problem?" I never saw anything other than the word of people who claimed their vehicles sped out of control and now the scientific data suggests there isnt a problem.
Also, you have to consider the fact that our government has a vested interest in GM and Chrysler, so it was to their benefit for Toyota to get a bad rep so that GM/Chrysler would possibly have better sales and make a profit.
As someone who has owned Toyota and been a Toyota entusiast for many years, its nice to see that there isnt a problem. Toyota isnt a company that usually does things like this and its nice to see they havent, "lost their way" nearly as much as some were claiming.

 

[Danilo]

really? Driver Error?
Was the drivers error by chance buying a defective toyota? Don't get me wrong, I love my Toyota Supra (1995) but they are wrong for blaming drivers after all the commercials about "working overtime to fix the problem"

 

[JRod]

I am a mechanic by trade and I wouldn't own anything else, call me any word in the book but I work on cars every day and see the amount of money it costs to maintain most other brands and Toyota is by far the cheapest cost of ownership, especially when you look at the amount of them that are on the road.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Danilo, these tests were done by the government. Toyota had nothing to do with the results. Do you want Toyota to accept responsibility for something that isnt their fault?

 

[Goins]

I'm sorry but I don't buy it. If anything I think this is a cover-up to help toyotas stock. There are far too many cases supporting the problems and it's kinda hard for a dead person to argue back. A toyota tech here was fired because he made a comment about how many people were complaing about the sudden acceleration before it became headline news. This was an issue well before GM was bought out, customers were told it was aftermarket floor mats.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

I am a mechanic by trade and I wouldn't own anything else, call me any word in the book but I work on cars every day and see the amount of money it costs to maintain most other brands and Toyota is by far the cheapest cost of ownership, especially when you look at the amount of them that are on the road.

Amen to that. I do think that all of the automakers have gotten much, much better in recent years (especially the domestics); but IMO Toyota and Honda are still the best.

 

[Danilo]

Danilo, these tests were done by the government. Toyota had nothing to do with the results. Do you want Toyota to accept responsibility for something that isnt their fault?

I would have liked Toyota to have tests done prior to sending out a recall... A recall says "It's our fault, let us fix it before you guys get hurt and sue us"

 

[Danilo]

I am a mechanic by trade and I wouldn't own anything else, call me any word in the book but I work on cars every day and see the amount of money it costs to maintain most other brands and Toyota is by far the cheapest cost of ownership, especially when you look at the amount of them that are on the road.

I wish my Toyota was a cheap one to maintain/upgrade. I do love my car, and will likely own nothing but Toyota/Lexus for my entire life! It is the absolute best car on the road today, 20 years ago and 20 years from now!!

 

[lefty]

toyota's are often attractive choices for people who don't enjoy driving but just want reliable, cheap transportation

just putting a story about going out of control was enough to make 3000 people claim to have experienced "sudden unwanted acceleration"

people who choose to drive toyota just don't care about driving enough to learn how to properly use their vehicles in many cases

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/camry/2010/2010-toyota-camry-stuck-throttle-brake-test.html

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...ended_acceleration_test/braking_distance.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

three different tests showing that basically all cars will stop, even if the throttle is stuck wide open

 

[TC]

Danilo, these tests were done by the government. Toyota had nothing to do with the results. Do you want Toyota to accept responsibility for something that isnt their fault?

if there was never a problem then why on earth would toyota have spent, and still be spending, so much money on a recall and on their current marketing campaign. there's no doubt that this debacle has cost them an absolute fortune. no one in their right mind would spend like that if there truly wasn't a problem.

it's ok, we know you are a die hard toyota fan, but to pretend like there was never an issue, when clearly there was. is just absurd. and the issue(s) have been validated by how much money toyota's spent and by their marketing campaign, on a national level, over the past few months.

forget people's safety, it's all GM and the government's fault, lmao!!

 

[lefty]

if there was never a problem then why on earth would toyota have spent, and still be spending, so much money on a recall and on their current marketing campaign. there's no doubt that this debacle has cost them an absolute fortune. no one in their right mind would spend like that if there truly wasn't a problem.

it's ok, we know you are a die hard toyota fan, but to pretend like there was never an issue, when clearly there was. is just absurd. and the issue(s) have been validated by how much money toyota's spent and by their marketing campaign, on a national level, over the past few months.

forget people's safety, it's all GM and the government's fault, lmao!!

it's more because there's been a perception of a problem than an actual problem

toyota is one of my most disliked auto manufacturers, I'll never buy one. I do think that they've been raked over the coals much more than they've deserved

when GM screws up it's not news because it happens so often, when there's a toyota recall, that's news because they've traditionaly had a much better record.

the marketing and ads are now a necessity for toyota as they have to attempt to repair the damage done to their image (which is now looking like toyota's image has been harmed because it has incompetent customers more than a defective product)

 

[solidkjames]

Toyota can give me a free car and I'll forgive them. I promise!

 

[Badger_Golfer]

if there was never a problem then why on earth would toyota have spent, and still be spending, so much money on a recall and on their current marketing campaign. there's no doubt that this debacle has cost them an absolute fortune. no one in their right mind would spend like that if there truly wasn't a problem.

it's ok, we know you are a die hard toyota fan, but to pretend like there was never an issue, when clearly there was. is just absurd. and the issue(s) have been validated by how much money toyota's spent and by their marketing campaign, on a national level, over the past few months.

forget people's safety, it's all GM and the government's fault, lmao!!

Public relations. The allegations by the government were that Toyota was sweeping problems under the rug, cutting corners and didnt care. The ad campaign was a statement that Toyota does indeed care about their customers and is doing all they could to make things right.
Deny the results all you want, but the fact is that the black boxes on these vehicles have shown that the problems was driver error, not some sort of mechanical or electronic defect. To deny the facts would be absurd.

 

[solidkjames]

Public relations. The allegations by the government were that Toyota was sweeping problems under the rug, cutting corners and didnt care. The ad campaign was a statement that Toyota does indeed care about their customers and is doing all they could to make things right.
Deny the results all you want, but the fact is that the black boxes on these vehicles have shown that the problems was driver error, not some sort of mechanical or electronic defect. To deny the facts would be absurd.

Lol I can see Toyota's new ads this fall.

Toyota is taking car owner's to a new level. This fall we will introduce the first drive before you can buy deals. If you pass the driving test and can identify the brake over the gas pedal you get 10% off the purchase price. Hurry in and be sure to read your driver's ed manual for great deals.

 

[TC]

Public relations. The allegations by the government were that Toyota was sweeping problems under the rug, cutting corners and didnt care. The ad campaign was a statement that Toyota does indeed care about their customers and is doing all they could to make things right.
Deny the results all you want, but the fact is that the black boxes on these vehicles have shown that the problems was driver error, not some sort of mechanical or electronic defect. To deny the facts would be absurd.

i guess i'm absurd then. geez, forget the fact that my professional life is in the automotive industry, forget the fact that i deal with numerous toyota dealers day in and day out, and let's just remember that according to the article:

The results, if correct, suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly holding down the gas pedal when they intended to hit the brakes, according to the Journal.

let's not be to presumptious.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

i guess i'm absurd then. geez, forget the fact that my professional life is in the automotive industry, forget the fact that i deal with numerous toyota dealers day in and day out, and let's just remember that according to the article:



let's not be to presumptious.

You seem really negative about the issue and seem to be ready to crucify Toyota even thought, at this point in time, the facts point to it being driver error, not some kind of defect in these vehicles.
Id be more than willing to say that Toyota screwed up if there were evidence to prove that. Like I said though, at this point in time thats not the case.

 

[TC]

You seem really negative about the issue and seem to be ready to crucify Toyota even thought, at this point in time, the facts point to it being driver error, not some kind of defect in these vehicles.Id be more than willing to say that Toyota screwed up if there were evidence to prove that. Like I said though, at this point in time thats not the case.

direct quote from the link you provided:

"Our findings have determined a number of explanations or causes, including pedal entrapment by floor mats or other objects, sticking pedals, pedal misapplication, engine idle up, or no trouble found,"

seems to me that there were some other factors besides someone slamming on the gas pedal.

the fact is, there were some other malfunctions that weren't all human involved....proven by the link YOU provided. i have nothing against toyota at all, have had 3 tacomas and got rid of my last one a little over a year ago. i never had any problems with mine but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a problem. that's all.

 

[Osahar]

And in other news, Toyota determines that if your vehicle's electric steering pump either lets the vehicle wander or just plain locks up, it's only a customer satisfaction issue...not a safety defect. :bulgy-eyes:

Report: Toyota says Corolla/Matrix steering issue not a defect, will offer fix to complainers

Back in February, The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration initiated an investigation of 749,685 2009 and 2010 model year Corolla and Matrix vehicles for a potential steering issue. And while we haven't heard much from the government agency regarding this issue, the Detroit Free Press reports that Toyota has indicated that the problem is not a safety defect and thus doesn't warrant a recall. Instead, the automaker will provide a free fix to customers who claim to have an issue.

NHTSA reportedly launched the investigation after 168 reports that Corolla and Matrix electric power steering units were prone to drifting or locking up, with the problem most notable when cruising at highway speeds. Toyota has reportedly told the Free Press that it has collected a total of 437 reports, including 11 injuries and 18 crashes. Further, the automaker has been receiving complaints about this issue since 2008. Spokesperson Brian Lyons reportedly tells the Freep that the majority of issues involve wandering from the dead-ahead steering position and that the company considers the problem a customer satisfaction issue, not a defect.

To address customer concerns, Toyota has sent a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) to its dealers advising technicians to check tire pressure and alignment. If that doesn't fix the problem, the next step is to replace the computer that governs the electric power steering with a new unit that has been re-tuned with a different steering feel.

Not classifying the Corolla/Matrix issues as a safety defect figures to save the Japanese company a lot of cash that would be tied up in a recall. Toyota will also avoid having to update regulators, who were informed of its decision to forgo recall proceedings way back in May. NHTSA hasn't publicly said anything since the Toyota proclamation and the investigation is reportedly still ongoing. With 11 injuries, 18 crashes and hundreds of reported problems, we're very interested to see if NHTSA ultimately agrees with Toyota on this one, or if the situation will eventually result in another recall and additional bad publicity for the automaker. Likewise, with General Motors having sold its own Matrix twin, the Pontiac Vibe, it presumably faces the same sort of steering issue. If so, it will be interesting to see if the Detroit automaker chooses to address the issue in the same way.

 

[Danilo]

toyota's are often attractive choices for people who don't enjoy driving but just want reliable, cheap transportation

just putting a story about going out of control was enough to make 3000 people claim to have experienced "sudden unwanted acceleration"

people who choose to drive toyota just don't care about driving enough to learn how to properly use their vehicles in many cases

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/camry/2010/2010-toyota-camry-stuck-throttle-brake-test.html

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...ended_acceleration_test/braking_distance.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

three different tests showing that basically all cars will stop, even if the throttle is stuck wide open

Ouch.. That hurts me in many ways!! (i kid, I know you meant that some people do not care)
I love my Toyota!!!

 

[TC]

Ouch.. That hurts me in many ways!! (i kid, I know you meant that some people do not care)
I love my Toyota!!!

what a pristine ride danilo! i can't believe that's a 95'. well done. i absolutely love the wheels.

 

[lefty]

that is a good looking supra Danilo

it's a shame that Toyota hasn't made anything like that in the last 10 years or so!

 

[Osahar]

And the plot continues to thicken. This is like a bad reality show...

Report: WSJ unintended acceleration story "planted" by Toyota

When The Wall Street Journal reported that crash data obtained by the U.S. Department of Transportation pegged the blame for Toyota's unintended acceleration on drivers, one line stuck out:

"A NHTSA spokeswoman declined to comment on the findings, which haven't been released by the agency."
With no official word from the DOT or NHTSA on its findings in the case, the WSJ's sources have been called into question.

According to an unnamed NHTSA spokeswomen speaking with Just-Auto, "The story was planted by Toyota. Toyota is the source – yes we know that for definite [sic]. It is [the] Toyota PR machine. We knew they were going to put it out."

There's no doubt Toyota is in close contact with the DOT and NHTSA, so there's a good chance that Toyota has been privy to the findings ahead of their official release. However, until something official comes down from the Feds, the exact causes of unintended acceleration aren't simply open and shut.

We're in the process of contacting both NHTSA and Toyota about the story and will update you as more information is collected.

UPDATE: A NHTSA spokesperson has confirmed that the agency hasn't released any information to the WSJ, but declined to comment if Toyota has gained advanced access to the agency's findings.

UPDATE 2: A report by the Detroit Free Press quotes NHTSA Administrator David Strickland as saying that the agency has "several more months of work" to complete before it can definitively come to a conclusion on the cause of unintended acceleration.

UPDATE 3: We've asked Toyota's National Manager for Environmental, Quality, and Safety Communications, John Hanson, if NHTSA has been supplying information to Toyota on its investigation. His response: "It's been a one-way valve [to NHTSA]. We've been supplying information and sending it to NHTSA. We are not aware of any study. We are not aware of any report. We've been compiling our own field reports on unintended acceleration and as we investigate them, we send them to NHTSA. The WSJ report was news to us."

 

[Danilo]

And the plot continues to thicken. This is like a bad reality show...

That is a pretty good way to describe things.