We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Official NBA Thread

ya read the post above tc idk what i was thinking, i guess i was focused on the heat with bron, wade and bosh thing so i just glanced and for some reason thought it was heat. haha
 
bridges said:
ya read the post above tc idk what i was thinking, i guess i was focused on the heat with bron, wade and bosh thing so i just glanced and for some reason thought it was heat. haha
Click to expand...

no worries man. i'm glad he stayed with the lakers. i hate the lakers, i especially can't stand derek fisher. if he signed with the heat i'd have to watch him all the time.
 
Just the thread I wanted to mini rant in for a bit. So I see this story on ESPN that says the "Rev" Jackson rips Gilbert's LeBron comments. Further reading brings up the words race, slavery, run away slave among other racial tones. Seriously? This guy needs to shut up and stop making everything about race. Why is it that anything Jackson comments on is always about race and slavery? Can you move on already? He even says that he Cavs owner put Lebron in danger. Really? Again, just another reason why the NBA blows.

Looks like this was already posted by Rhino. Rant is still valid lol
 
+10000


OEM Kevin said:
Just the thread I wanted to mini rant in for a bit. So I see this story on ESPN that says the "Rev" Jackson rips Gilbert's LeBron comments. Further reading brings up the words race, slavery, run away slave among other racial tones. Seriously? This guy needs to shut up and stop making everything about race. Why is it that anything Jackson comments on is always about race and slavery? Can you move on already? He even says that he Cavs owner put Lebron in danger. Really? Again, just another reason why the NBA blows.
Click to expand...
 
OEM Kevin said:
Just the thread I wanted to mini rant in for a bit. So I see this story on ESPN that says the "Rev" Jackson rips Gilbert's LeBron comments. Further reading brings up the words race, slavery, run away slave among other racial tones. Seriously? This guy needs to shut up and stop making everything about race. Why is it that anything Jackson comments on is always about race and slavery? Can you move on already? He even says that he Cavs owner put Lebron in danger. Really? Again, just another reason why the NBA blows.

Looks like this was already posted by Rhino. Rant is still valid lol
Click to expand...

This is a further statement that was done by Bill Rhoden and Jesse continues to try and play the race card where it does not belong.
 
JB said:
This is a further statement that was done by Bill Rhoden and Jesse continues to try and play the race card where it does not belong.
Click to expand...

I cant agree more. Always trying to force the race card wherever he can. I cant stand it. Gives me ideas for a "Top Celebrity / Moron" youd love to lay out thread!! haha
 
Your rant is totally valid, I just had mine a bit before yours. I am tired of that kinda talk too.
 
OEM Kevin said:
Just the thread I wanted to mini rant in for a bit. So I see this story on ESPN that says the "Rev" Jackson rips Gilbert's LeBron comments. Further reading brings up the words race, slavery, run away slave among other racial tones. Seriously? This guy needs to shut up and stop making everything about race. Why is it that anything Jackson comments on is always about race and slavery? Can you move on already? He even says that he Cavs owner put Lebron in danger. Really? Again, just another reason why the NBA blows.

Looks like this was already posted by Rhino. Rant is still valid lol
Click to expand...

Unless you're black, you probably don't understand. It's not what I thought of when the letter came out, but when Michael Wilbon of ESPN's PTI talked about the subject on his show and how he and other black men felt there were some racial undertones regarding Gilbert's letter, I could understand where he was coming from. As for putting Lebron in danger, I really thought he put his family and friends in that position. The fans were already riled up and he added fuel to the fire. I really am worried at what may happen to him when he plays in Cleveland. It's one thing for fans to boo, but I wouldn't be surprised to see stuff possibly thrown at him.

I really think the media is now making Lebron into the biggest villan in sports. It'll be interesting to see what happens after they win two plus championships.
 
JB said:
This is a further statement that was done by Bill Rhoden and Jesse continues to try and play the race card where it does not belong.
Click to expand...

I agreed on that but I saw Michael Wilbon on PTI (ESPN) and he said he agreed with Jackson and that the black community took it that way as well. So I guess it is just in how you took it. It never occured to me to say racist remarks I just thought it was sour grapes. Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe also thought it was like a jilted lovers retort after being left behind. He too was surprised at the racist thing.
 
I ahve to say that just because Wilbon agreed with him does not make it so in my opinion. Growing up in the basketball world (somewhat) and working with athletes for a large part of my career, I see a side of it, but Bill Rhoden hit that side and then went overboard. Jesse Jackson is nothing more than a racist in my opinion. As Bob Ryan said, no matter what the angle, to compare someone that earned 100 million dollars and was offered 120 million more to the act of slavery is frankly absurd and if this the other way, would Jesse Jackson be speaking out? of course not. I am all for equality, but Jesse Jackson and to some extent Bill Rhoden need to realize that sometimes there is just smoke and not necessarily fire.

Just because a team owner feels slighted and makes his remarks known, does not make it a racism matter. Where were either one of these figures when the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats (previously) cut white players? Trying to find racism in every angle when it is not there is what has made Jesse Jackson a figure and frankly I have a real problem with an above post saying that "unless I am black I do not understand". That to me is also a form of racism and also absurd in my opinion.
 
JB said:
I ahve to say that just because Wilbon agreed with him does not make it so in my opinion. Growing up in the basketball world (somewhat) and working with athletes for a large part of my career, I see a side of it, but Bill Rhoden hit that side and then went overboard. Jesse Jackson is nothing more than a racist in my opinion. As Bob Ryan said, no matter what the angle, to compare someone that earned 100 million dollars and was offered 120 million more to the act of slavery is frankly absurd and if this the other way, would Jesse Jackson be speaking out? of course not. I am all for equality, but Jesse Jackson and to some extent Bill Rhoden need to realize that sometimes there is just smoke and not necessarily fire.

Just because a team owner feels slighted and makes his remarks known, does not make it a racism matter. Where were either one of these figures when the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats (previously) cut white players? Trying to find racism in every angle when it is not there is what has made Jesse Jackson a figure and frankly I have a real problem with an above post saying that "unless I am black I do not understand". That to me is also a form of racism and also absurd in my opinion.
Click to expand...

+1

Prejudice against white people and their actions, strictly because they are white = racism
Prejudice against white people and their actions, strictly because they are white= Jesse Jackson's Career

He did a lot of good fighting racism back in the day, but he is embarrassing himself in the eyes of "all the white people" with his accusations the past several years.
Why doesn't he take up the cause of forced child slavery, if he feels so strongly about the injustice of slavery.

The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency estimates that 50,000 people are trafficked into or transited through the U.S.A. annually as sex slaves, domestics, garment, and agricultural slaves.
Click to expand...
 
JB said:
I ahve to say that just because Wilbon agreed with him does not make it so in my opinion. Growing up in the basketball world (somewhat) and working with athletes for a large part of my career, I see a side of it, but Bill Rhoden hit that side and then went overboard. Jesse Jackson is nothing more than a racist in my opinion. As Bob Ryan said, no matter what the angle, to compare someone that earned 100 million dollars and was offered 120 million more to the act of slavery is frankly absurd and if this the other way, would Jesse Jackson be speaking out? of course not. I am all for equality, but Jesse Jackson and to some extent Bill Rhoden need to realize that sometimes there is just smoke and not necessarily fire.

Just because a team owner feels slighted and makes his remarks known, does not make it a racism matter. Where were either one of these figures when the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats (previously) cut white players? Trying to find racism in every angle when it is not there is what has made Jesse Jackson a figure and frankly I have a real problem with an above post saying that "unless I am black I do not understand". That to me is also a form of racism and also absurd in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I have to say that is an excellent well written post. I agree 100%.
 
JB said:
I ahve to say that just because Wilbon agreed with him does not make it so in my opinion. Growing up in the basketball world (somewhat) and working with athletes for a large part of my career, I see a side of it, but Bill Rhoden hit that side and then went overboard. Jesse Jackson is nothing more than a racist in my opinion. As Bob Ryan said, no matter what the angle, to compare someone that earned 100 million dollars and was offered 120 million more to the act of slavery is frankly absurd and if this the other way, would Jesse Jackson be speaking out? of course not. I am all for equality, but Jesse Jackson and to some extent Bill Rhoden need to realize that sometimes there is just smoke and not necessarily fire.

Just because a team owner feels slighted and makes his remarks known, does not make it a racism matter. Where were either one of these figures when the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats (previously) cut white players? Trying to find racism in every angle when it is not there is what has made Jesse Jackson a figure and frankly I have a real problem with an above post saying that "unless I am black I do not understand". That to me is also a form of racism and also absurd in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Not my best choice of words, but my issue is with simply denouncing Jesse Jackson's statements when other people feel the same way, specifically other black men. Their conclusion is based off their life experiences and for us to say that they're wrong is denying another man's freedom of speech.

I didn't see the letter as racist, nor do I think Dan Gilbert is racist, but I think Jesse Jackson's feeligns are based off the sense of entitlement with Gilbert. With Gilbert basically saying, "How dare you leave!?!" you can construe whatever you want based off that.
 
wilwin said:
Not my best choice of words, but my issue is with simply denouncing Jesse Jackson's statements when other people feel the same way, specifically other black men. Their conclusion is based off their life experiences and for us to say that they're wrong is denying another man's freedom of speech.

I didn't see the letter as racist, nor do I think Dan Gilbert is racist, but I think Jesse Jackson's feeligns are based off the sense of entitlement with Gilbert. With Gilbert basically saying, "How dare you leave!?!" you can construe whatever you want based off that.
Click to expand...

But what you are describing is no different than the racism you are condemning. Jesse Jackson compared a man making 100 million dollars to that of slavery because he had a boss that disagreed with his decision to leave and called him out on it. That is the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard. It is nothing more than racism but will not be called that because like Jackson and Sharpton have openly said before "People of color cannot be racist". I wont get this into a racism debate in the NBA thread because while it is fascinating conversation if handled like adults, there just is no place for it here.

Jesse Jackson has done some great things in his life. But for the last 2 decades he has done nothing but stir the pot and there is a reason that so few consider him relevant. But let me see if I understand this. Guy gets 100 million for being an employee for 7 years and helping to turn a city around. Guy gets offered 120 million to stay for another 6 and decides to go elsewhere. The owner upset with the player leaving said "your a quitter and you have been exposed. I helped make you who you are." and that is racism? No, what it is, is a millionaire acting like a teenage girl that got rejected at the prom, but skin color is not relevant, unless of course someone wants to make it relevant. Does this mean every time an employee leaves one job for another and his/her employer is of a different race and says "Damn that Johnny was a crappy employee, I helped build them in their career and look what they did?" that it is racism? Im sorry, but I find that to be borderline comical.

Wasnt it the same entitlement that told Lebron he could make a clown out of his owner (and the league) by putting a 1 hour special on TV about "the decision". Rather than handle it like an adult and actually call the employer or return a call and explain what is going on. Wow, perhaps since they are of different backgrounds, that is racism as well. Wasnt that nothing more than a slap in the face of his employer? Where was Jesse during these decisions. This is nothing to do with race and everything to do with money!

But I am going to comment on your quote that I bolded. So let me see if I understand this. Because others agree with his statement, then I should not denounce it, and more specifically, men of color based on life experiences. Im sorry that makes little sense to me. Some, based on life experiences, are racist or hate Jews, that does not mean I cannot denounce their message if I disagree with it and find it borderline appalling. I find Jesse Jackson to be one of the most racist individuals around and frankly you confirmed that for me when you said that "unless I am black I do not understand". No different than him and to me just another form of racism!
 
HEre you go:



Three weeks ago, I took a quick look at how a team with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh might fare if the three were to join forces.

Now, after the shadiest summer in league history concluded with those three all on the same roster (not to mention the apparent shenanigans with James Jones and Richard Jefferson opting out from and then returning to the Heat and Spurs, respectively), that question has moved from a hypothetical "what if?" to a very real "it did."

Thus, it's time for a second, closer look at the same question.

In the first exercise, I plugged the trio into a lineup with 10 replacement-level players (those are the guys any team can pluck off the scrap heap) and came away with a figure of 61 wins for the imaginary Team Trinity. My assumptions for that exercise included a PER of 29 for James, 26 for Wade and 23 for Bosh, with James playing 3,100 minutes, Wade playing 2,850 and Bosh playing 2,600.

For the real Miami Heat? Let's revisit those assumptions.

The Heat's season looks brighter after signing free agents like Mike Miller (above) and Udonis Haslem.

First of all, the supporting cast is significantly better than we had projected. We had assumed the Heat would need to clear the decks salarywise, but because Bosh, James and Wade all took less money than they could have, it allowed the Heat to keep another decent player (Mario Chalmers) and sign two more solid contributors as free agents (Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem). Those three are significantly better than replacement-level, or at least they were last season, and so that should improve Miami's projection significantly.

From there, the players the Heat have filled out their roster with -- Joel Anthony, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Jamaal Magloire, Carlos Arroyo, Juwan Howard, Jones and Dexter Pittman -- are more in line with the type of minimum-contract flotsam we'd expected them to land in the first exercise, so they don't change the outcome of our projection much.

But before we get to our answer, we have two other adjustments to make. The first is a technical one involving Bosh, Wade and James. Thanks to a bit of digging by ESPN researcher Keith Goldner, we have a much better idea about how the interplay of Bosh, Wade and James might work.

I had estimated earlier that each of Miami's big three would lose about 5 percent of his total possessions this season but could only speculate as to how that might impact their efficiency. Based on Goldner's work with the players' skill curves (a concept created by Denver Nuggets stat guru Dean Oliver that shows how players' efficiency changes with more or fewer touches), we can now estimate what might happen.

Looking at their skill curves for the past three seasons, we'd expect James' efficiency to increase by 1.19 points per 100 possessions, Wade's by 0.70, and Bosh's by 0.29.

Of course, they could also redistribute the possessions to optimize their efficiency. In that case, instead of reducing all three players by 5 percent, the correct strategy would be to diminish Bosh's touches severely, diminish James' touches slightly, and actually increase the touches by Wade -- up to a usage rate of about 40, he shows virtually no loss of effectiveness.

Because this scenario stretches the bounds of feasibility -- it's nearly inconceivable that Wade would have more touches than he did when he was basically playing 1-on-5 last season -- I won't dwell on it in this projection.

Besides, they're fearsome enough without such a severe adjustment. Pumping those changes into last season's numbers, one gets Bosh with a PER of 24.16, Wade with a PER of 27.39 and James at a robust 31.04. Basically, they wouldn't lose a thing.

Of course, they won't be playing with last season's Bosh-Wade-James tandem, but next season's version. This is an important distinction -- their numbers would have been likely to diminish slightly even if they had stayed on their own teams, simply because there isn't much room left for them to go up. My projection tool had James at a PER of 29.12, Wade at 26.31 and Bosh at 23.88 if each had stayed put.

The Heat will be good, but good enough to challenge the record 72 wins set by MJ's Bulls in 1995-96?

Throwing in the skill-curve adjustment from above, we end up with James at 28.97, Wade at 25.60 and Bosh at 22.93. As noted above, my back-of-the-envelope estimate from three weeks ago had James at 29, Wade at 26 and Bosh at 23. Score one for the envelope.

Now there's still the matter of plugging in the rest of the roster. I ran all of them through my projection system and estimated minutes for the rest of the crew -- 2,000 each for Miller and Haslem, with Chalmers and Arroyo splitting the point duties and about 500 minutes left over for a "no-point" offense, and spot duty for the others. After two other slight adjustments -- putting my finger on the scale to improve what I felt was an unusually pessimistic projection for Miller, and replacing Jones (who rated far south of replacement level) with a randomly selected civilian, the answer it spat out was ...

68 wins.

Well, 68.3 to be exact, but it's not clear to me where the Heat will get the extra 0.3.

Of course, there's one other important factor to consider here: The Heat probably don't need to win 68 games. My model assumes they'll play their best players as much as they can, but any such projection system breaks down a bit with elite teams that can coast at the end of the regular season. Most likely, the Heat will need to win only 63 or so to clinch home-court advantage throughout the playoffs. If they hit that mark with six or seven games to play, you can bet all the sugarcane in Florida that Wade, James and Bosh will see very little of the court.

As a result, the most realistic estimate for this team is more like 65 wins.

More importantly, it isn't 70 or 72 -- the targets that everybody might be talking about during the season if Miami appears on track to challenge the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls' all-time record of 72-10. To achieve the 70-win plateau, the Heat not only would have to be interested enough to play their starters during some meaningless April games but also would need better-than-average health from their three stars and/or surprise seasons from at least a couple of the role players.

But whether it's 65, 68.3, 70 or 72, the overriding conclusion is the same: Miami is now the favorite to win it all. With three stars and just enough role-playing talent around them to fill in the cracks, a Miami-L.A. Lakers Finals next June almost seems preordained.

Now if we could just get this pesky regular season out of the way ...
 
Not to toot my own horn, but I predicted Shaq to the Celts a month ago and now it looks to be happening. Yay me!
 
JB said:
Not to toot my own horn, but I predicted Shaq to the Celts a month ago and now it looks to be happening. Yay me!
Click to expand...

What's his new nickname there? The Big Green? The Big Hub? The Big Tea Party? Shaqachusetts?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top