The Dynamics of a Swing!

[thedue]

Can we start a thread about the dynamics of the swing, that can really educate the average "hacker"?

Ok, let me start by saying that I started playing prior to the internet or things like swing monitors were even heard of. I can thank THP for really bringing me in to a new world of understanding my swing, but the 10 year absense really helped to put me way behind the curve. Posts such as:

Launch Angle - The Hackers Paradise

Robert Garrigus Video On SuperTri - The Hackers Paradise

excite the heck out of me. I love to learn. I have found that many golf shop personel are like talking to computer nerds when looking for info. They give you lots of data in a way that I for one don't always understand. I've found that a few of you better golfers on here have a great nack for explaining things without talking over my head. Thanks for that!

Members like Idriveahonda and grantc79 posted some great info here, as have many others over the cource of many months. Andy our pro here is a tremendous help, as is JB and I look forward to their input.

Grantc79, could you copy the info from your post from the Garrigus thread here for us to read and make comments about?

 

[provisional]

I am a big John Jacobs fan. One of his comments goes like this:

“The golf swing only has one purpose: To deliver the club head/face to the ball correctly. How that is done is immaterial, so long as the method used permits correct impact to be achieved over, and over again. “ John Jacobs

Another one of his comments I like is this one:

Golf’s Only Secret(s):
The behavior of the ball is determined solely by four impact factors interacting with each other. They are:
1. The direction in which the face of the club face looks, or the clubface alignment.
2. The direction in which the club head travels, or the path of the swing.
3. The angle of inclination at which the club head arrives at the ball, or the angle of attack.
4. The speed of the club head.
Getting these four items to work correctly with each other is golf’s only
secret. “ John Jacobs.

My own personal one is that it is advantageous to the golfer to have their elbows level with each other at the top of their swing.

 

[thedue]

Good stuff prov. I just have a hard time going to the monitor and understanding the data they throw at me such as spin rates. Here's what was posted by grantc79. I thought it good enough to show everyone:



"Basically only a few stats really matter but understanding how the numbers effect one another matters too.

I'll break down all the major Trackman numbers so you can have some sort of idea how it all works.

Swing Speed: How fast your club head is traveling at impact.

Ball Speed: How fast the ball is moving after impacting the club face.

Smash Factor: Relationship between swing speed and ball speed. The higher the better 1.45 to 1.49 is normal. Anything over 1.5 is godly.

Angle of Attack: The angle that you hit downward onto the ball during your swing. With a driver you want this number as close to zero as possible. With a wedge you want this number to be more like 7-10 degrees downward.

The more down you hit on the ball the more it will spin and vice versa. Pro's will greatly alter this number depending on what type of shot they want to hit. Want to hit a high spinning wedge, hit more down. Want a shot to go through the wind, hit less down.

Launch Angle: The angle at which the ball is traveling at impact in relation to the ground.

Higher swing speeds will generally go for a lower launch because they can drive the ball into the air with their higher ball speeds. Vice versa for lower swing speeds.

That said with ideal course conditions most people will fall between 11 degrees and 14 degrees. Pros will alter their launch hole to hole depending on what type of shot they want to hit, how much roll they want, etc.

Backspin: How many RPM's the ball is spinning backwards in flight.

With a wedge this number can get pretty high. With a driver you generally want it in the 2000-2900 range depending on your swing speed.

Angle of Descent: The angle at which the ball is dropping to the ground after its apex in flight. You want this number to be somewhere between 30 and 40 degrees.

This is truly where distance is found. If you are hitting the ball too high and spinning it you are basically attaching a parachute to it. You'll find where it landed right by where it is.

But if you can get your launch angle, spin rate, angle of attack, and angle of descent just right you could feasibly add 10-50 yards to your drives.

I have a good friend of mine who's a college golfer here who is a +5 handicap and will make a run at Q-School next year and he added 40 yards to hit drives just by getting his angle of attack fixed.

Want to know how pros bomb it? This is how. They swing faster than most of us but not that much.

They just know how to hit it in the right way to make it launch high, not balloon, and then roll out.

Hope this helps."

 

[thedue]

Everyone may or may not agree with all of the info, and there in lies the conversations to enlighten us all.

 

[Golf Chick]

Great stuff. Since I'm considering myself still "new" to this lovely and wonderfully humbling sport, I didn't know the technical meanings of each of these and its always good to learn something new.

 

[Sean]

IMHO the best book written on the dynamics of the swing is The Impact Zone by Bobby Clampett. He is less concerned with the "swing" and more concerned with where the club head is at impact. I've picked up at least 1.5 club lengths since I purchased the book a few weeks ago (and that's been on the range). What a difference it makes having your hands ahead of the club head at impact. It doesn't matter how you get to the impact zone, just so long as you get there.

Another very good book is The Four Magic Moves to Winning Golf by Joe Dante (originally published in 1963), and reprinted in 1995.

What's nice about both books is they are simple to understand; no overly complex mechanics. I now have only one swing though, instead of 6532.

 

[DaveLeeNC]

Good stuff prov. I just have a hard time going to the monitor and understanding the data they throw at me such as spin rates. Here's what was posted by grantc79. I thought it good enough to show everyone:



"Basically only a few stats really matter but understanding how the numbers effect one another matters too.

I'll break down all the major Trackman numbers so you can have some sort of idea how it all works.

Swing Speed: How fast your club head is traveling at impact.

Ball Speed: How fast the ball is moving after impacting the club face.

Smash Factor: Relationship between swing speed and ball speed. The higher the better 1.45 to 1.49 is normal. Anything over 1.5 is godly.

Angle of Attack: The angle that you hit downward onto the ball during your swing. With a driver you want this number as close to zero as possible. With a wedge you want this number to be more like 7-10 degrees downward.

The more down you hit on the ball the more it will spin and vice versa. Pro's will greatly alter this number depending on what type of shot they want to hit. Want to hit a high spinning wedge, hit more down. Want a shot to go through the wind, hit less down.

Launch Angle: The angle at which the ball is traveling at impact in relation to the ground.

Higher swing speeds will generally go for a lower launch because they can drive the ball into the air with their higher ball speeds. Vice versa for lower swing speeds.

That said with ideal course conditions most people will fall between 11 degrees and 14 degrees. Pros will alter their launch hole to hole depending on what type of shot they want to hit, how much roll they want, etc.

Backspin: How many RPM's the ball is spinning backwards in flight.

With a wedge this number can get pretty high. With a driver you generally want it in the 2000-2900 range depending on your swing speed.

Angle of Descent: The angle at which the ball is dropping to the ground after its apex in flight. You want this number to be somewhere between 30 and 40 degrees.

This is truly where distance is found. If you are hitting the ball too high and spinning it you are basically attaching a parachute to it. You'll find where it landed right by where it is.

But if you can get your launch angle, spin rate, angle of attack, and angle of descent just right you could feasibly add 10-50 yards to your drives.

I have a good friend of mine who's a college golfer here who is a +5 handicap and will make a run at Q-School next year and he added 40 yards to hit drives just by getting his angle of attack fixed.

Want to know how pros bomb it? This is how. They swing faster than most of us but not that much.

They just know how to hit it in the right way to make it launch high, not balloon, and then roll out.

Hope this helps."

Regarding the Angle of Attack and driver ....

While a level Angle of Attack is far better than hitting down on the ball with a driver, a level Angle of Attack of a VERY LONG way from the optimum Angle of Attack when hitting a driver. You almost can't hit the ball with a too positive Angle of Attack.

dave

ps. I was referring here to the optimum dynamics between the golf club and the ball with a driver (to achieve the best possible launch conditions for your swingspeed).

 

[grantc79]

Regarding the Angle of Attack and driver ....

While a level Angle of Attack is far better than hitting down on the ball with a driver, a level Angle of Attack of a VERY LONG way from the optimum Angle of Attack when hitting a driver. You almost can't hit the ball with a too positive Angle of Attack.

dave

ps. I was referring here to the optimum dynamics between the golf club and the ball with a driver (to achieve the best possible launch conditions for your swingspeed).

I agree but that get's very tricky.

Most people have a hard time maintaining a left wrist with a level angle of attack, they would struggle even more trying to hit upwards on a ball with a flat left wrist.

At the end of the day if you can pull that off then go for an upward swing with a flat left wrist and less loft on the driver and hit your high launching low spinning bombs.

But you need great mechanics and above average swing speed to pull that off.

Most people would do well simply to get it level.