Questions on driver fitting...

chilly

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I started playing golf seriously April of this year, having played around 2 rounds per year prior to this. Basically, I grabbed a Callaway X460 9* off the used club rack so I had a decent driver this year, but never really had a swing that let me hit driver. Recently I've been working on my swing and have had some success, I now have enough consistency to be able to tell a difference in clubs, versus hitting bad shot after bad shot regardless of what driver I picked up.

Anyway, I went for a quick driver fitting from Golf Galaxy a few weeks ago. I had hit in their simulator, but this was my first time in the actual launch monitor. The results were AVE SS = 117.5mph, launch was 11* average, distance (with roll) = 276yds. I was surprised at the swing speed, and launch angle. I didn't think my SS was in that range, and on course I hit all clubs very high, including driver which doesn't jive with the launch figures. My goal has been to get driver trajectory down, it's not necessarily ballooning, but it definitely isn't a boring type ball flight.

I hit a few head/shaft combos, the best (in a small sample size) being an Xstiff Motore F1 (factory) in a R9 TP. Problem was the monitor still showed this as a 11* launch combo, still only 275yds. The Xstiff definitely brought my dispersion in (I play Stiff shafts), I averaged 8yds from centerline according to launch versus around 12-13yd dispersion with Stiffs (in general). My average spin with most shafts was around 3200, the Motore/R9 combo got me to 2800. The driver distance is a bit odd because I hit my 18.5* 5wd 250-255yds pretty consistently, 15.5* 3wd 260-265. These are UST V2 HL shafts that hit the ball high, which is fine because I hit them off the deck and like the trajectory to get the ball up and land softly.

Before the weather turned sour I visited a local driving range/golf shop to hit outdoors. I had my X460, a 9.5 '09 Tour Burner with stock Reax Stiff, and a Hibore XL with stock stiff red fujikura I just picked up for a good price. I was hitting the ball well but really didn't get along with the X460 for some reason, and never have. I hit the Burner long and with some consistency, but "bad" swings are very bad and the shaft feels quite whippy. I occasionally get a nice looking trajectory but this club hits the ball with too high a ball flight if I don't turn the club over for a Draw. The Hibore was very consistent and played a slight draw, misses were slight pushes but still in great shape. Problem is this combo always hits the ball very high as well, definitely feels as though I was losing distance. Tough to judge distance but I'd say carry was 260ish in 40* temps.

One of the owners at the range came out and let me hit a few demos. Hit a G15, i15, 909D2 and 909D3. Best combo was a D3 with UST V2 Stiff 76G, it got the ball a bit lower and was consistent (but not exactly the type trajectory I'm looking for). I did hit some Xstiff combos that still didn't bring ball flight down. I went back on Sunday to do some more analysis, hitting some balls with impact tape on the driver. I figured some of the issue may be missing the sweet spot, but I hit quite a few "perfectly" on the sweet spot that still seemed to hit the ball too high. I then tried moving the ball forward and back in my stance to see if it changed trajectory. To be honest, I had a very hard time hitting the ball well when I moved it back to the right, causing a slice. Forward in my stance didn't really change trajectory but caused more hooks.

So my questions are:
1) Should I "ignore" the launch angle data from the launch monitor, being that it said I was "low" but on course shows i hit everything high? Could ball extremely high ball flight be due to spin, although I was hitting some very low spin, low launch combos (909D3 with a Prolaunch Red, for instance). I also haven't tried an 8.5* driver because they're somewhat hard to find, and my understanding is lower loft is harder to hit straight?

2) Would a 75g Xstiff, or 85g Xstiff get ball flight down appreciably versus 65g?

3) Would something like an Adams 9015d head launch appreciably lower then a 909D3 or the i15?

4) Is there a swing "fault" that would cause me to hit the ball too high? I'm hitting a very slight push or draw most times and it's still going high, this is not a big slice that climbs. I tee the ball low already, equator of the ball is below the topline of the club.
 
I have a high launch. I have been hitting with an 8.5* for years, and I still get a high trajectory, but it is MUCH better. Give one a try!
 
So my questions are:
1) Should I "ignore" the launch angle data from the launch monitor, being that it said I was "low" but on course shows i hit everything high? Could ball extremely high ball flight be due to spin, although I was hitting some very low spin, low launch combos (909D3 with a Prolaunch Red, for instance). I also haven't tried an 8.5* driver because they're somewhat hard to find, and my understanding is lower loft is harder to hit straight?

2) Would a 75g Xstiff, or 85g Xstiff get ball flight down appreciably versus 65g?

3) Would something like an Adams 9015d head launch appreciably lower then a 909D3 or the i15?

4) Is there a swing "fault" that would cause me to hit the ball too high? I'm hitting a very slight push or draw most times and it's still going high, this is not a big slice that climbs. I tee the ball low already, equator of the ball is below the topline of the club.

1) Yes, seeing your own ball flight beats a simulator any day. If you are hitting it high consistently, then the outdoors gives you valid proof you do. The higher the loft of the club, the more spin is reduced on the ball. Correct, lower loft would be harder to hit.


4) Where are you positioning the ball in your feet? It all depends on what angle your club is upon impact of the ball. My guess is the ball is far in front and you are hitting the ball on the upswing.
 
Guys this is the ask the pro section. Please leave these questions to Andy. Thanks.
 
Chilly there are a couple of things that can happen in the swing to hit the ball higher. IF you tend to have a flip at impact will launch the ball much higher.

As for the launch moniter data. Most are pretty accurate in terms of launch angle and spin rates. According to my numbers I would like to see the launch about 12-14* with your swing speed and a spin rate of 2000-2500 rpm. A lower launch with more spin mean you are loosing some distance.

The simplest way to break down how to change this is:
Driver loft will have the most affect on the launch angle. A shaft will change the launch conditions up to 1* up or down but not much more than that.

Spin rate on the driver will be affected the most by the shaft. You would need to find a shaft with a stiff tip to help decrease the back spin. Adding weight will help a little but not near as much as changing the kick point on the shaft.

The V2 is great for this....as is
VooDoo.
YSQ-ST and so on. Try some of those and see what that does for you.
 
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. I have a V2 65g Stiff that I picked up, looking around for an affordable clubhead to try it in.

I also put together an '07 Burner in 10.5*, with an 85g NV in Stiff, one of the cheap pink ones being sold by the Aldila Store. I've heard conflicting reports on the NV, but for $16 I thought it was worth a shot.

I plan to get out this weekend and report back.
 
Just updating as promised.

Now that the weather has gotten into the 50s/60s, I've had a chance to work through drivers a bit more. I've found that I'm now hitting the XL Hibore much better. I'm not sure if the 30* temps are enough to make the ball balloon, but the club now produces very nice mid height shots. I know that the stock red shaft isn't viewed as a great shaft, but I think it's extremely stable and very stout for a stock shaft so I have confidence in it. I'm hitting the ball fairly straight and my distance is increasing. I've hit a few 290yd drives on level ground on fairly soft fairways, I'm not completely sure what carry is compared to roll but I did carry 275yds into an uphill (ball was actually behind ballmark) so I believe the carry numbers are getting to where I'd like them.

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to ask in this forum, but is there a known equivalent to the Fujikura Red? I've seen E360, Vista Tour, and Speeder 757 all said to be similar.

I have hit the '07 Burner/NV 85g setup once in warming up for a round. It seems to hit the ball fairly high as well, so I don't think the heavier shaft was necessarily the answer for bringing the ball down.
 
Chilly that is good to hear! The Fuji red is a low launch low spin stock shaft in the cleveland clubs. If you are looking for a shaft that play similar...out of your list would be the vista pro/vista tour line. The E360 are higher launch and spin. The speeder 757 would fall inbetween the other 2. I hope that helps a bit. The NV line will hit the ball a touch higher. If you are looking towards aldila think vs proto by you.
 
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