64 Degree Wedge

[JPsuff]

Its funny you say that all of them are stock and that you grind them. When we visited the tour trucks in Doral there was only one player in the entire Taylormade Arsenal (about 50 tour pros) that could not play a stock wedge. With the bounces today the club fitters said that it is in their head more than the club. The best part is the player that does have to grind every wedge gave the exact reason that you did. Sergio Garcia.

I don't think that's as odd as it may seem at first glance.

Most (if not all) players today employ a very square and very regimented method of swinging a golf club. The overwhelming method for controlling distance is to control the length of the swing incrementally and there are very few open stanced/open faced players left out there. But I think that Sergio is one of those "throwbacks" who is more than willing to use a more unconventional approach to shotmaking and as such he feels a greater need for a more "special" club than simply choosing from a variety of factory grinds.

He is certainly a very creative player and I have seen him play with a very open setup when it comes to wedges and as a result, he most likely feels that he needs a bit more in the way of something custom even if that just means a few thousandths of an inch of metal being removed to make him feel as if he has something different in his hands.

Square setups and square swings allow for very specific bounce profiles to be designed into a club because the clubhead is always approaching the ball in more or less the same way most of the time with the only real variable being speed. But open setups require a bit more exotic or custom grind because players often use the club in ways which are not square or consistent and that changing geometry requires the adaptability of a more personal grind to suit that player's variable setup.

Some of the wedges I've ground myself have only required a small amount of metal to be removed or reshaped (usually rounding off the trailing edge), while others have required hours of time on a grinding wheel to get the complex shape I was after. There's also the emotional or psychic satisfaction of knowing that something is truly "one-of-a-kind" (as opposed to some factory option), which demands that something be modified even if that modification is so minimal as be virtually irrelevant.

That's just a personal thing more than anything else.

In the past, players like Palmer, who are true gearheads when it comes to equipment, would spend hours customizing their clubs because they simply enjoyed doing it and it offered a measure of control (real or imagined) over some portion of their game.

Like I said, wedges are very personal things and the reasons why people buy them or modify them are quite esoteric and often do not make any real sense to many, but if tinkering allows that person to play a better game, there's no harm in that. Lee Trevino used to wear a band-aid on his forearm because he felt it gave him luck. Was he nuts, or did it really work?

So if grinding a wedge makes someone feel good, who's to say there's anything wrong with that?



-JP

 

[Lange]

I have to agree with some of the others saying the 64* doesn't have the control the 60* obtains. It may get to tempting to be used in situations, but in the end that can backfire on your scores

 

[interlooper]

Do you have better control with 58? Do you recommend a higher or lower bounce with 58?

Keith,

I play a 58, as well as a 50 and 55. I used to play a 60, but after years of little use, I dropped to a 58. It has worked wonderfully and fits well with my game. I feel like I have more variety of shots with the 58, and I rarely encounter the situation where I say to myself, "man, I wish I had a 60 for this shot." But even in that situation, I probably would need a 64 or something, so having the 60 wouldn't make much a difference. But like I said, that is few and far between.

My 58 has very little bounce, and my 55 has much more bounce. Thus, I rarely use my 58 in the sand or when it is sitting high on deep rough (unless of course I need the type of shot where I swing my heart out and it only goes 9 feet).

In the end, you need what is best for your game and swing. The 58 happens to be best for my game.

 

[provisional]

You were given good info, especially when practiced a lot. Something I was told, that has served me well over the years, was the thinner the lie, the less bounce needed. Fluffier the lie, the more bounce needed.

Wedges are such a useful club, and have so many different shots built into them for the end user to use. The problem, as I see it, is that most end users do not take the time to learn many of the different shots that a wedge can provide for them. See it all the time. A golfer winds up in a bunker, and pulls their SW wedge because, it's a "sand" wedge. This when another club could have made for an easier shot. An example might be along the lines that we are always told not to "scoop" the ball off the turf, but sometimes that "scooped" shot is the correct shot for the situation. That info was passed on to me from Harmon's School of Golf while taking some short game lessons from one of their instructors. Using one's imagination, and thinking outside the box as he put it to me. Clubs are just tools, and how they are used to move the ball around, is up to the individual.

i got a short game lesson once.

the way the pro put it to me was this:

if you need to carry more than 75% of the distance of your shot, use my 60
if its 50% then use my 56
if its less than 50% then PW
if its a clear path you pick whatever club you need

ive found this saving me a lot of shots, and would say this lesson on its own cut my handicap by the greatest margin..

my typical bunker club is my 60. primarily due to the sand conditions.

ive never thought i needed more loft than my 60.

 

[JPsuff]

Wedges are such a useful club, and have so many different shots built into them for the end user to use. The problem, as I see it, is that most end users do not take the time to learn many of the different shots that a wedge can provide for them. See it all the time. A golfer winds up in a bunker, and pulls their SW wedge because, it's a "sand" wedge. This when another club could have made for an easier shot.

I agree 100%

And what you wrote actually makes a case for carrying less wedges because if someone knows how to play a variety of shots with one wedge, there really is little need for other wedges.

As far as the purpose of a wedge is concerned, the idea of a "Sand" wedge only being used in sand is something I've seen quite a bit myself. In bunkers, the club I most often use is my 51 degree wedge which has about a 5 degree bounce with a lot of heel relief. My 55 degree has a bigger bounce (about 10 degrees or so) and I use it only in very soft sand or in "fluffy" conditions where a lower bounced wedge might just slide under the ball altogether.

But I've also used a variety of other clubs to get out of greenside bunkers including a putter because there really is no single club that works for a specific situation. Take hard sand or wet sand; often an 8-iron will be a much better choice than ANY wedge in such situations.

All I know is that for the vast majority of years that I've played this game, I carried only two wedges; a PW and a SW, so I really don't understand the sudden need for multiple wedge setups. I mean, what has really changed so much to justify all of this?
Even my 55 is just excess baggage most of the time. But with the advent of hybrids and a livelier ball, I no longer need a 1-iron or even a 2-iron, so carrying that extra wedge doesn't cost me anything even if the times I've actually used it can be counted on one hand.

As I said, unless you regularly play courses with green speeds that stimp in the low teens, I really don't understand why all of this "stopping power" is needed at all.



-JP

 

[JB]

I agree 100%

But I've also used a variety of other clubs to get out of greenside bunkers including a putter because there really is no single club that works for a specific situation. Take hard sand or wet sand; often an 8-iron will be a much better choice than ANY wedge in such situations.

All I know is that for the vast majority of years that I've played this game, I carried only two wedges; a PW and a SW, so I really don't understand the sudden need for multiple wedge setups.
-JP

For you!!!!!!

 

[Phana24JG]

I'm not picking a fight here, but I don't see how a launch monitor can help anyone choose a wedge and a bounce for that wedge.

Launch monitors may be fine for full shot analytics, but wedges are not about distance, or ball speed, or clubhead speed or any of the other things that launch monitors are used to determine or define.

Wedges are about control and feel. And to me, the only way to determine whether a wedge suits someone's particular need is for that person to take several wedges out onto a course and play with them in real situations and then decide which one is best.


JP

JPs, I do not even see anything resembling picking a fight in your post, but I do see a lot of constructive criticism. Where I found the monitor helpful was to select the loft of my wedges, and to see which wedges and swing variations gave me more spin on less than full shots. A by-product of this was discovering that my nine-iron was off-spec.

Obviously, taking a series of wedges onto the course and playing with them is the ideal situation. For those who do not have that option, I think a monitor can be helpful.

 

[Ole Gray]

I take my lob wedge out of play (58 degree cobra UFI) during the winter. I love this wedge to no end when the fairways are tight and hard. It is so much fun to throw it at the pin and watch the breaks come on. No fun in Georgia with the winter rain and mud. It comes out and stays out until spring. I am not sure what bounce the cobra UFI is but it sure is fun to play when the conditions are right. Providing you got firm tight lies and not mush..... I am actually thanking about trying the Cleveland 56 niblick for winter lies... Any suggestions here?

 

[JB]

I take my lob wedge out of play (58 degree cobra UFI) during the winter. I love this wedge to no end when the fairways are tight and hard. It is so much fun to throw it at the pin and watch the breaks come on. No fun in Georgia with the winter rain and mud. It comes out and stays out until spring. I am not sure what bounce the cobra UFI is but it sure is fun to play when the conditions are right. Providing you got firm tight lies and not mush..... I am actually thanking about trying the Cleveland 56 niblick for winter lies... Any suggestions here?

Not a bad idea and look forward to your feedback with it. Not having to worry about the tight lie side of things could be fun with the Niblick.

 

[provisional]

I too believe most folks can get by with just two wedges, and is a good way to go as long as one has a low (or zero) bounce for those thin, hard lies. I carry four wedges, and I have to admit there have been rounds when I did not use all four of them during that round. But, with my bag make up I have room for four wedges. Where they come in handy for me is for distance control, carrying a hazard, and when I need to have the ball drop, and stop. If I don't need to carry a hazard of some sort, I most likely will be using one of my (5-9) mid/short irons. I can't spin a ball backwards no matter what I do, so the amount spin one wedge might give me over another is not a big deal to me. I practice that 7, 9, and 11 o'clock swings a lot with each wedge, which helps with my distance control needs. When it comes to my golf clubs, I am just like the old (club) "transgression" who is trying to get along with the tools I have.

I agree 100%

And what you wrote actually makes a case for carrying less wedges because if someone knows how to play a variety of shots with one wedge, there really is little need for other wedges.

As far as the purpose of a wedge is concerned, the idea of a "Sand" wedge only being used in sand is something I've seen quite a bit myself. In bunkers, the club I most often use is my 51 degree wedge which has about a 5 degree bounce with a lot of heel relief. My 55 degree has a bigger bounce (about 10 degrees or so) and I use it only in very soft sand or in "fluffy" conditions where a lower bounced wedge might just slide under the ball altogether.

But I've also used a variety of other clubs to get out of greenside bunkers including a putter because there really is no single club that works for a specific situation. Take hard sand or wet sand; often an 8-iron will be a much better choice than ANY wedge in such situations.

All I know is that for the vast majority of years that I've played this game, I carried only two wedges; a PW and a SW, so I really don't understand the sudden need for multiple wedge setups. I mean, what has really changed so much to justify all of this?
Even my 55 is just excess baggage most of the time. But with the advent of hybrids and a livelier ball, I no longer need a 1-iron or even a 2-iron, so carrying that extra wedge doesn't cost me anything even if the times I've actually used it can be counted on one hand.

As I said, unless you regularly play courses with green speeds that stimp in the low teens, I really don't understand why all of this "stopping power" is needed at all.



-JP

 

[Phana24JG]

I agree with JP. A launch monitor will do virtually nothing in terms of a wedge fitting. It is about bounce.

JB, what about gapping? I thought the LM was very helpful. I have not yet gotten my wedges on a Trackman, but I have a hell of a lot of respect for Fredrik Tuxen and I suspect he did not write a lot of software for the Trackman with wedges for an academic exercise. If your point is that most of us (myself included) are not good enough to get any useful information from it, or that it is overkill, then I might be inclined to agree

 

[JB]

Gapping for most wedges during a fitting is completely overkill. Most know how far they hit each wedge or know what gaps they are wanting to hit by degrees. Wedges all feel different and many spin different, but few have different distances in terms of brand difference.

 

[JPsuff]

For you!!!!!!

Look, all I'm saying is that the average public course green speed today isn't all that different than it's been for the past 20 years or so. Right now, the average green speed nationwide is between 8 and 9.5 on a stimp.

Twenty years ago, the average green speed was between 7.5 and 9.

Twenty years ago, I was playing V-groove wedges and I only carried a PW and SW and so did 90% of the rest of the golfing public. A typical wedge shot would land on the green, bounce once, check and then trickle to a stop - just like it does today. So why does everyone need all the high lofted wedges with corrugated faces and razor sharp groove edges?

Answer: Because the pro's do.

But the pro's are playing greens that routinely stimp out over 12 or 13 feet and as such, they need all the braking power they can get - even on chips, which is why almost every pro today chips with a wedge.

Years ago, before the "Bomb and Gouge" era, most pro's would advise that getting the ball running was the first goal of a good chip and using anything from a fairway wood to a wedge was recommended. Nowadays, that type of advice is almost non-existent because the pro's don't have such options anymore (so it isn't a second nature thing) and they are also somewhat obligated to help feed the trend of designer wedges too.
But since green speeds haven't changed all that much over the years on the public level, why is everyone advocating loftier and "spinnier" wedges?

Answer: Marketing!

The only non-professional golf venues at which one may encounter really fast greens (and thus the need for loftier wedges) would be at private country clubs and to a lesser extent, resort courses. The reason for that is because those courses can afford to pay the freight for keeping those greens fast as well as green. But the average Muni or Daily Fee public course has nowhere near the operating budget to keep greens cut to 3/32 of an inch while still keeping them healthy.

And since the average golfer doesn't play private or resort courses week in and week out, and since the average green speed of the courses they DO play regularly hasn't changed much since the "V-groove" era, why does everyone "need" five wedges?


-JP

 

[JB]

twenty years ago people were playing persimmon woods and steel shafts as well. Fairways at most public courses are longer but not by that much, so why did we change? Some things change because they got easier for the public. A 60* wedge is not easier, but carrying multiple wedges for full swings rather than getting creative with shots is easier for many golfers.

Nothing has changed with people emulating the golf pros. The past generation emulated Nicklaus and the current one emulates the current stars. That is no different than anything else in the world. It is not just a sports thing.

Loftier wedges were created to get the ball up for most amateurs. It had very little to do with spin. It was done so that more high handicappers could enjoy the game by getting it up and therefore having a softer landing.

 

[JPsuff]

twenty years ago people were playing persimmon woods and steel shafts as well. Fairways at most public courses are longer but not by that much, so why did we change? Some things change because they got easier for the public. A 60* wedge is not easier, but carrying multiple wedges for full swings rather than getting creative with shots is easier for many golfers.

Nothing has changed with people emulating the golf pros. The past generation emulated Nicklaus and the current one emulates the current stars. That is no different than anything else in the world. It is not just a sports thing.

Loftier wedges were created to get the ball up for most amateurs. It had very little to do with spin. It was done so that more high handicappers could enjoy the game by getting it up and therefore having a softer landing.

OK, that's a valid argument - especially in regard to the high-handicapper.
Although there is a threshold of loft at which a high-capper reaches a point of diminishing returns, simply because wedges with lofts in the 60's are damned hard to hit consistently - even for many more experienced players.

But one of the things I've been seeing more of lately is people becoming almost addicted to drawing the ball back on a wedge shot.

This technique has its place of course, just like putting "English" on a cue ball in pool. But I remember once watching a guy land a ball about 3 feet from the pin and then having the ball "suck back" and it ran all the way off the green and into the frog hair by the fairway leaving himself about a 30 foot chip instead of a virtual tap-in. But instead of seeing a disappointed response, he's high-fiveing his buddy and jumping up and down.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

We got a kick out of doing that with a cue ball when we first learned to play pool and we made that happen as much as we could. But then we learned that "English" is something that should be used sparingly and hardly ever as dramatically and that most shots were more about direction than spin.

Maybe those guys will learn that too, but I just think that there's way too much emphasis on bite and spin these days and truth be told, direction and distance control are still more valuable skills to have than making the ball dance all over the green.

To each his own, I guess.


-JP

 

[JB]

You are correct in the diminiishing returns aspect. Hence what Leadbetter said that we put up on page 1. I agree that the 60* is a problem that far too many golfers have and use.

 

[Smallville]

The only time I use my 60° is on the downhill mounds around the greens where I play most. There's a possibility of a downhill shot while standing on said hill on almost every hole.

 

[Fourputt]

I had a 64 degree wedge many years ago and I would consider it for myself to be a novelty wedge. I never found a situation on the course I actually would use it. The percentage of pulling off that miracle shot were so low it hurt more than it helped. I now carry a 60 degree wedge in the bag and rarely use it, maybe once every 2 rounds.

I too considered the 64° wedge to a novelty club. I actually bought one some 20 years ago... never used it on the course and sold it at a garage sale.

I guess I don't have you all's game.I've had a couple of 60's and they were hard for me to make the shots I wanted.Moved to 58's which worked better. Now I just carry a 56 that seems to work for me to good effect.It's produced some chip in birdies as well as saves.I dabled in all the lofts and have settled for the 56 for shots from sand and close in where I need the loft.Lets me dable more in the longer end of the set.If I carry another wedge other than the pitching wedge and the 56 it is usually a gap wedge 50-53.For me though it's better to just stick with the 56 which has proven results for me.

I own 51°, 52°, 54°, 56°, 58°, and 60° wedges. Actually two 58's of different brands. In my bag right now are just the 52° and 56° Vokey's, plus my AP-2 PW, which is mostly just a 10 iron. I have gone round and round for years trying different combos, but by the end of each season I keep returning to the 56.11 SW and 52.08 GW. This year I'm through experimenting and I'm just going to focus on practicing with those 2 clubs and forget that I have the others. Even when I carry a LW, I don't use it enough to feel confident when I do pull it out of the bag. I so rarely find a myself in a situation where I would actually need the club anyway. Like JP, my 56° does most anything that a 58° or 60° can do, but it's a more versatile club overall and can hit a full shot a bit farther. Going with just 2 wedges gives me some room to play around on the other end of my arsenal, or it just makes my bag a bit lighter.

I think that many average players really do hurt themselves by trying to copy the pros and use 3 or 4 specialty wedges in addition to a PW. In my opinion, it just makes for too many mechanical decisions and not enough imaginative ones. The player who learns to use his imagination is typically going to be a more well rounded golfer. I learned the game first using a half set with nothing lower than a 9I. My first full set included only a PW. It wasn't until I'd been playing for about 15 years that I even realized that I needed a SW. I was forced to be creative with my shots, and I think it has served me better in the long run because I can now "see" possible shots that I otherwise might never have imagined.

I think that players can actually slow down their progress in the game by jumping at novelty clubs just because it's used by Phil Mickelson, or it's recommended anonymously by Joe Hacker on a golf forum. The more choices you have, the more you create a potential for indecision and doubt about club selection, and if you are uncertain about the club, then you will be indecisive with the swing.

 

[bigvivec]

Do you have better control with 58? Do you recommend a higher or lower bounce with 58?

I found that the 2* made a huge difference…that and the bounce…I have 12* of bounce in my 58* which makes it perfect as a sand wedge and for lofted wedge applications…around the greens when I use it I roll the face open just a bit normally; I have a heel grind which allows the leading edge to come down when doing so which will simulate a wedge with lower bounce…on longer shots I square it up and bang that bounce down into the ground which helps the club contact the ball more solidly; the purpose of bounce…my 60* wedge that I played had minimal bounce: 4*…like a previous poster I used to think that was ideal in that I’d try to spatula my shots around the green, slipping the club under the ball…I’ve since discovered that the lack of bounce also meant lack of forgiveness and playability; you have to catch the ball just right or else you fat the ball, submarine the head clean under and leave the ball short or scoop it in an effort to put the club on the ball…more bounce allows for hitting down without worries, consistenly solid contact even on feathery little shots, versatlitiy to use out of the sand effectively (I’m a little better than 50% out of the sand now with the new club and techniques compared to 30ish% with the 60*) and with the sole grind it adds even more options to roll the face around like you want as JP was talking about…I used to lose shots with the 60*, and figured that I was a little ahead in terms of brilliant saves vs. flubs with it; it isn’t easy and out of the rough a low bounce wedge has to be pitch perfect (pun intended)…the lower loft and increased bounce has made my misses only misses as I put the club on the ball consistently now and can forget about sweating the contact and worry about distance and direction…on the mid speed greens I usually play it’s all I need…


However, if I played a course like I did a couple of months ago on a regular basis, lightning greens, perfect fairways, manicured rough, imported sand; essentially a pro set up, I’d bag a 62* more than likely and would buy new wedges every 6 months…little pitches off those fairways was like hitting off of a green on most courses; they were maintained at that level, and with that kind of lie, a 62* would be relatively easy to make crisp contact and spin the ball enough to hold the greens…and you’d need to; it’s a different game for sure and you’d need to develop the shots and have the clubs to do it…that’s what the pros play on and with…when I came back to my home course the next day and tried the same shots that hopped and stopped or spun back, I didn’t get the same action on the ball because the lie wasn’t as clean and the greens weren’t as hard and fast…I can’t use the Phil Mickelson techniques on the courses that I usually play and honestly don’t need to…stick with the lower lofts and you’ll have more success unless you play on courses that have tricked up greens and fairways that require spinning greenside chips…chips I say, not pitches…I held my breath on every shot around the green on that course, it was like hitting onto ice and spin was a must…regular joe courses it isn’t and it isn’t about average or better than average or being an ace…when I talk about mishitting or doffing it, I don’t mean the obvious stroke where the ball goes 8 inches…I’m talking about when you fail to make the exacting contact required (which happens with whatever club you use but the degree of difficulty increases with loft exponentially from around 56*) and you leave the ball short by a third of the distance…in short game terms that’s a duff and a shot lost as the goal like my caddy mutters is “one chip one putt…no problem!... there is no place in the bag for a 62* or IMO even a 60* on courses that aren’t set up to spin and require spinning the ball…you won’t get the pro style action you’re looking for and you’ll increase the difficulty of the shot needlessly…


The last bit of the argument is that sometimes even on the average joe courses you’re faced with a shortsided, over a bunker, downhill lie situation that the play is to put the ball straight up into the air and stop it with a combination of spin and trajectory, or just a straight up short sider that you’d like to stop the ball as quick as you can…I haven’t seen one that a 58* couldn’t handle, and probably a 56*…higher than that is just overkill, the shot difficultly increases and like I said before, the ball won’t respond like it does for the pros unless the green is in lightning trim…and just for the record, I play usually 5 times a week on the course, practice one or two days that I don’t go to the course and handicap is hovering somewhere around scratch to 2 depending on the week (playing so much all it takes is a good or bad week to make the handi flutter)…so I don’t buy the I’m good enough for a 64* argument…buy one if the course conditions demand it; you’ll know it if they do, it won’t be a question…otherwise I guarnteee that you’ll be better off all around with a lower loft…

…and check out sole grinds…after I figured out what I needed and got the clubs ground accordingly, it made a BIG difference in playability…

 

[bigvivec]

We don't have what I consider real bunker sand out here. Picture this, sand that is watered along with the grass, then allowed to bake all day long in triple digit heat. It gets hard. Now factor in very little replacement sand being added on a not so consistent basis after the wind, and other golfers have removed most of the good, soft stuff. Add in a worker who only smooths the very top of the sand with a tractor dragging a heavy metal screen in the morning effectively leaving hard pan underneath. I have yet to learn to hit balls off tight lies, hard pan, or even very firm sand effectively with a club that has bounce. Now if I play on a course with real sandy, softer, sand where bounce is helpful, then I will use my SW.

I have...




...as a matter of fact I've developed an entire bunker technique that deals with the less than perfect bunkers that I face that are very similar to yours, hardpan with a smattering veneer of sand on top...I use a club with 12* of bounce for these shots...now I have a grind that gives trailing edge relief and has a fair portion of the heel removed which I am absolutely sure has positively affected my results, but the biggest difference in approach is that I really must hit down on the ball (or sand in this case) and allow the bounce of the club to do the job it was designed to do; keep the club from traveling into the ground...I used to have a low bounce lob wedge and in retrospect I was often trying to "spatula" the ball off the ground, attempting to slip the leading edge neatly under the ball and lift it up...really not the best way to hit a ball...


I routinely hit balls of the cartpath next to the pitching green for practice...it isn't concrete, but lined with rubber strips as hard as a tire (could be recycled tires come to think of it)...anyway, the only way to hit a ball off that kind of hardpan is to hit down, hit the ball first...I find the bounce actually helps the head flow through the shot and kicks the head forward through impact...in contrast when hitting like this with a lower bounce wedge I find I get "stuck" and the club sticks a little or alot at impact...just remember, if you lead with the leading edge, bounce at contact isn't a consideration...Stan Utley has a technique for a particular shot where he actually hits a little behind the ball in grassy lies and allows the bounce to kick the head into the ball...all kinds of different shots and different ways to hit the golf ball...

 

[Harry Longshanks]

FWIW, I love my 60° LW.

 

[JPsuff]

The last bit of the argument is that sometimes even on the average joe courses you’re faced with a shortsided, over a bunker, downhill lie situation that the play is to put the ball straight up into the air and stop it with a combination of spin and trajectory, or just a straight up short sider that you’d like to stop the ball as quick as you can…I haven’t seen one that a 58* couldn’t handle, and probably a 56*…

Funny you should mention that shot because this whole thread got me to thinking about a very similar shot I once had from a greenside bunker.

My ball had barely trickled into the outer edge of a greenside bunker and ended up on a downslope facing the green. The green itself was about six or seven feet above my ball and the pin was short and my ball was just sitting right on top of the sand because it had rolled in slowly from the edge.

I used my trusty 51 degree with a wide open blade and I set myself up tilted with the downslope and my plan was to just slide the blade right under the ball with a full swing, following the slope and take just a bit of sand.

That's exactly what I did and my ball stopped dead just six feet from the hole.

I owe the success of that shot to all of the years I spent playing wedge shots from an open stance and with an open blade, so I had the feel for that shot going through my head even before I actually stepped into the bunker to hit it.

That's the creative part that comes from playing with just one wedge for so many years (well, two if you count the PW). I agree with what Fourputt wrote that multiple wedges lead to "too many mechanical decisions and not enough imaginative ones". If I had learned golf much later in life - in the age of swing mechanics and club specs - I'm not sure I'd have been able to make such a shot.

But even if I could have pulled off that shot with a square setup and a 62 degree spatula, I don't think I'd have gotten as much satisfaction out of it because the open blade/open stanced 51 was more about imagination and skill, while the spatula would have been more about simply matching technology to a given situation.

And if I'm gonna let technology do what my mind ought to be doing, then what the hell is the point of playing this game at all?


-JP

 

[bigvivec]

One thing that I do appreciate about the lofted wedges in certain tricky situations is that you can make a swing with a more squared face from tricky lies from shorter distances with power sufficient to clip the ball out cleanly…it doesn’t occur every round, but sometimes when a ball is in a poor lie that requires a firm, positive strike from inside 15 yards, it’s nice to be able to have more of the face covering the ball to power it out as opposed to rolling the face open on a lower lofted club…

Bottom line though is unless you practice enough to increase your realistic odds of actually getting up and down from not just 15 yards out, but 15 yards out with a poor lie, then the whole thing is moot in that unless you can honestly say that the higher lofted wedge with its raised general degree of difficulty of use will get you up and down more often, you might as well whack the ball on the green with a fairway wood, two putt and call it a day…

 

[bigvivec]

Funny you should mention that shot because this whole thread got me to thinking about a very similar shot I once had from a greenside bunker.

My ball had barely trickled into the outer edge of a greenside bunker and ended up on a downslope facing the green. The green itself was about six or seven feet above my ball and the pin was short and my ball was just sitting right on top of the sand because it had rolled in slowly from the edge.

I used my trusty 51 degree with a wide open blade and I set myself up tilted with the downslope and my plan was to just slide the blade right under the ball with a full swing, following the slope and take just a bit of sand.

That's exactly what I did and my ball stopped dead just six feet from the hole.

I owe the success of that shot to all of the years I spent playing wedge shots from an open stance and with an open blade, so I had the feel for that shot going through my head even before I actually stepped into the bunker to hit it.

That's the creative part that comes from playing with just one wedge for so many years (well, two if you count the PW). I agree with what Fourputt wrote that multiple wedges lead to "too many mechanical decisions and not enough imaginative ones". If I had learned golf much later in life - in the age of swing mechanics and club specs - I'm not sure I'd have been able to make such a shot.

But even if I could have pulled off that shot with a square setup and a 62 degree spatula, I don't think I'd have gotten as much satisfaction out of it because the open blade/open stanced 51 was more about imagination and skill, while the spatula would have been more about simply matching technology to a given situation.

And if I'm gonna let technology do what my mind ought to be doing, then what the hell is the point of playing this game at all?


-JP

Notice the putt didn't make the story...

 

[JPsuff]

Notice the putt didn't make the story...

Didn't make the hole either (I lipped out from the high side).


But I WAS putting for par instead of God-knows-what, so I had that goin' for me :thumb:


-JP