2 Rule Questions

[Diane]

1. Winter rules were in place today. My friend insisted that you needed to mark your ball on the fairway when you lifted to clean. I said you didn't have to mark it. Who is correct?
2. My ball landed on the side of a hill on an elevated green. I addressed the ball and then it rolled back. As soon as it started to roll - I lifted my club so it wouldn't hit it. Do I get a penalty?

 

[Dent]

1. Winter rules were in place today. My friend insisted that you needed to mark your ball on the fairway when you lifted to clean. I said you didn't have to mark it. Who is correct?
2. My ball landed on the side of a hill on an elevated green. I addressed the ball and then it rolled back. As soon as it started to roll - I lifted my club so it wouldn't hit it. Do I get a penalty?

For #2, i beleive you get a penalty, as soon as the ball is addressed, and it rolls a penalty is issued.

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Yes you need to mark ,even when winter rules are in effect.

Yes, penalty on number 2

 

[Diane]

Yes you need to mark ,even when winter rules are in effect.

I was specifically asking about the fairway where you can only lift if Winter rules are in effect. Are you sure? I just emailed my father who said no, you don't need to mark on the fairway.

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

The following is the local rule contained in the 2004 Rules of Golf, Appendix I, Part B, Section 3b:

"If a player's ball lies on a closely-mown area through the green [or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole] the player may mark, lift and clean his ball without penalty. Before lifting, he must mark the position of the ball. The player must then place the ball on a spot within [specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard or on a putting green.

"If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

"*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:

"Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes

 

[provisional]

Golf Rules FAQ: What are Winter Rules (or Preferred Lies)?

It's a relative new requirement.

If a ball moves after it has been addressed, you lose a stroke.

 

[LGL-NI]

I was specifically asking about the fairway where you can only lift if Winter rules are in effect. Are you sure? I just emailed my father who said no, you don't need to mark on the fairway.

Diane - an easy thing to remember. If you pickup your ball ANYWHERE on the course - you HAVE to mark it.

The only exceptions to this are picking up after you've holed out or in matchplay and you've won the hole or been given the hole by your opponent.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

Diane - an easy thing to remember. If you pickup your ball ANYWHERE on the course - you HAVE to mark it.

The only exceptions to this are picking up after you've holed out or in matchplay and you've won the hole or been given the hole by your opponent.

It's nice to have you back LGL.

 

[Diane]

The following is the local rule contained in the 2004 Rules of Golf, Appendix I, Part B, Section 3b:

"If a player's ball lies on a closely-mown area through the green [or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole] the player may mark, lift and clean his ball without penalty. Before lifting, he must mark the position of the ball. The player must then place the ball on a spot within [specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard or on a putting green.

"If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

"*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:

"Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes

Diane - an easy thing to remember. If you pickup your ball ANYWHERE on the course - you HAVE to mark it.

The only exceptions to this are picking up after you've holed out or in matchplay and you've won the hole or been given the hole by your opponent.

Thank you - I clarified with my father and he thought I meant after handicap season had closed.

 

[Slammin'SAM]

If you have not grounded your club at address, and the ball moves, then you are not deemed to have moved it - otherwise, it is a penalty and you must replace the ball in the original position.

 

[Diane]

If you have not grounded your club at address, and the ball moves, then you are not deemed to have moved it - otherwise, it is a penalty and you must replace the ball in the original position.

Thanks for the clarification SAM.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

Rules:

b. Ball Moving After Address

If a player's ball in play moves after he has addressed it (other than as a result of a stroke), the player is deemed to have moved the ball and incurs a penalty of one stroke. The ball must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

Definitions:

Addressing the Ball
A player has "addressed the ball" when he has taken his stance and has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.

Decisions:

18-2b/1 Ball Moves After Stance Taken But Before Address

Q. Outside a hazard, the player took his stance but did not ground his club. The ball moved. What is the ruling?

A. As the player had not addressed the ball, he did not incur a penalty under Rule 18-2b (see Definition of "Addressing the Ball").

If, however, the player caused the ball to move, he was subject to penalty and the ball should have been replaced — Rule 18-2a.

18-2b/4 Ball Moves After Player Grounds Club But Before Stance Completed

Q. A player's routine prior to making a stroke is as follows: He first grounds the club directly behind the ball with his feet together. Then he gradually widens his feet to shoulder width. At that point, he makes the stroke.

If the ball moves after he grounds the club but before he widens his stance to shoulder width, does he incur a penalty stroke under
Rule 18-2b (Ball Moving After Address)?

A. No. A player has not addressed the ball until he completes taking his stance, i.e., his feet are essentially in the position in which he normally places them when making a stroke.

However, if the ball moved after the club was grounded but before the player had completed taking his stance, he incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a for having caused the ball to move and must replace the ball, unless there is strong evidence that wind or some other agency caused the ball to move. (Revised)

18-2b/7 Ball Moves After Player Addresses It and Then Steps Away

Q. A player takes his stance and grounds his club. Realizing that the ball is precariously balanced and may move, he steps away from the ball and starts again. This time he does not ground his club, but before he strikes the ball, it moves. What is the ruling?

A. The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2b, and the ball must be replaced.

 

[Diane]

I didn't keep score today, but I had definitely grounded my club and addressed my ball so I would have incurred the penalty.

 

[solidkjames]

I didn't keep score today, but I had definitely grounded my club and addressed my ball so I would have incurred the penalty.

I'm gonna have to report you to the fun police. :blob:

 

[Diane]

I'm gonna have to report you to the fun police. :blob:

Why - it was very fun watching my ball roll down the hill after it took me long enough to get it up there.

 

[Fourputt]

1. Winter rules were in place today. My friend insisted that you needed to mark your ball on the fairway when you lifted to clean. I said you didn't have to mark it. Who is correct?
2. My ball landed on the side of a hill on an elevated green. I addressed the ball and then it rolled back. As soon as it started to roll - I lifted my club so it wouldn't hit it. Do I get a penalty?

1) Yes. Any time you lift your ball in play, it must be marked first.

Thank you - I clarified with my father and he thought I meant after handicap season had closed.

Why would it make any difference if the season was open or closed? The preferred lies local rule doesn't have such a stipulation to it. If you are playing the local rule as defined in Appendix I, then you have a specified distance from the current lie within which the ball is to be placed. How can you be certain that you are within that distance if you don't mark?

If you get in the habit of always marking the ball before you lift it, then you never have to worry about it. On the very rare occasions when I play preferred lies, I mark with a tee when I'm lifting the ball anywhere through the green.

This is the specimen local rule from Appendix I:

c. "Preferred Lies" and "Winter Rules"

Ground under repair is provided for in Rule 25, and occasional local abnormal conditions that might interfere with fair play and are not widespread should be defined as ground under repair.

However, adverse conditions, such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can make fairways unsatisfactory and sometimes prevent use of heavy mowing equipment. When these conditions are so general throughout a course that the Committee believes "preferred lies" or "winter rules" would promote fair play or help protect the course, the following Local Rule is recommended:

"A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green[or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole] may be lifted without penalty and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within [specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves , there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

Note: "Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

 

[Diane]

Why would it make any difference if the season was open or closed?

I try to follow the rules year round, but am not a stickler when I'm not not posting scores. My friends and I say we play by "guy rules" in the Winter because we take gimmes.:shock:

 

[thedue]

I try to follow the rules year round, but am not a stickler when I'm not not posting scores. My friends and I say we play by "guy rules" in the Winter because we take gimmes.:shock:

LOL, thats not nice! :female-fighter:

 

[C-Tech]

I try to follow the rules year round, but am not a stickler when I'm not not posting scores. My friends and I say we play by "guy rules" in the Winter because we take gimmes.:shock:

Now that's funny......and accurate....:banana:

 

[Fourputt]

I try to follow the rules year round, but am not a stickler when I'm not not posting scores. My friends and I say we play by "guy rules" in the Winter because we take gimmes.:shock:

Looks like you watch the wrong "guys" then, Diane. The Guys I play with play by the same rules year round.... and those are generally the the ones in the book.

Sometimes when playing as a fivesome we will give short putts of a foot or less just to save a little time on the green (the slowest part of playing with 5 is teeing and putting), but with a foursome or less we still putt them all. It doesn't really take that long to tap in a 1 foot "gimme" anyway.