Separate and Still Unequal

[ClairefromClare]

Our golf club pretends to be progressive--the bylaws refer to the Member and the Spouse, and the rules for a divorced or widowed spouse getting full membership are pretty liberal. But let's face it, women are still second class citizens.

Minor but annoying. Huge member-guest tourney on Wednesday. There were 140 people; I was one of three women in the field. We invited two clients.

In the men's locker room, each guest had a special locker (they set aside guest lockers) with his name on it. There's a bar right outside, and after the tourney, they had a waiter going back and forth taking drink orders.

As the spouse of a non-equity member, I'm in the weird position of being neither a member nor a guest. I don't have my own locker. There are no guest lockers in the women's locker room. There isn't even a coat rack. No attendant in sight that day. When I was showering/changing/becoming naturally beautiful after the round, all I could think was how much I wanted something to drink. No one taking orders. Even if I'd called the bar on the house phone, the wait staff is all male, so no one could have brought me anything.

Don't even get me going about men only first thing on weekend mornings. Women get Tuesdays and Thursdays. Whippee! I work.

I know we don't have a whole lot of female club members here, but you guys have significant others. How are your clubs doing about treating men and women equally.

 

[C-Tech]

Not a member anywhere since I moved to Tucson, but at my old club, there was certainly a lack of service for the few women members we had. I would have to say they were treated like second-class citizens. I'd never thought about it because there were only a handful of women members, but if they had asked for my support in changing the rules, I would have been up for it. I think golfers should not be considered to have a gender...we are all addicted to this terrible game and should be shown the same courtesies, like any insane person.

 

[TheGasman]

Don't even get me going about men only first thing on weekend mornings. Women get Tuesdays and Thursdays. Whippee! I work.

.

I dont think that would fly out here.

 

[JB]

Out of curiosity, why did you guys join this club with issues like that?

 

[jefffann]

Makes me glad I was born a man.Only drawback is I can't always show my true sensitive nature without ridicule.

 

[JB]

I dont think that would fly out here.

Many of the courses are like that here as well. When asked about it, most say it really comes down to the amount of play. My parents are members at a very private course down south of us and the ladies get Tuesdays and Fridays and they still do not fill the tee sheet. If there was enough weekend players, I think it would change.

 

[Diane]

Claire - I know it doesn't seem like it, but things have changed a lot. When I was a kid - the 19th hole was in the men's locker room so if women wanted a drink after the bar closed or on Sunday when CT still had blue laws in effect - there was a window that connected the women's locker room to the 19th hole. The women had to knock, a wooden door would slide up and the men would hand the drinks through - kind of like a speakeasy.

 

[ClairefromClare]

Out of curiosity, why did you guys join this club with issues like that?

It's a stone's throw from home, which is huge. Great kids' program, good tennis (Hubby's primary sport). But most of all--Hubby is straight out of the 1950s. This is all fine with him, and he wrote the check. QED.

 

[fireman07]

But most of all--Hubby is straight out of the 1950s. This is all fine with him, and he wrote the check. QED.

That pretty much answers that question....I don't have a good answer..as long as the spouse is on board you're s.o.l.

What does your husband say when you voice your concerns?

 

[ClairefromClare]

What does your husband say when you voice your concerns?

Oh, it's the golden rule-he who has the gold... .

 

[Sir Shanksalot]

Claire,
I know what you are talking about. There is a strong, small female group in my club that really has taken the initiative to set up female only events, but it is more male oriented. The men's lockers are double the size of the ladies and there are more male events, but to be fair, there are a far greater number of active male members. The men also have a nice card room with large TV's all over so we can watch the game. It's also connected to the rear of the pub so we can get served. Nice set up for us.

 

[ClairefromClare]

Claire,
I know what you are talking about. There is a strong, small female group in my club that really has taken the initiative to set up female only events, but it is more male oriented. The men's lockers are double the size of the ladies and there are more male events, but to be fair, there are a far greater number of active male members. The men also have a nice card room with large TV's all over so we can watch the game. It's also connected to the rear of the pub so we can get served. Nice set up for us.

On my way into the locker room today, I stopped off at the bar to get a drink. I noticed that there was a female server. I figured I'd be clever and asked the bartender to send her into the locker room with a second round about 20 minutes after the first. Didn't happen, darn it all.

 

[Fourputt]

Our golf club pretends to be progressive--the bylaws refer to the Member and the Spouse, and the rules for a divorced or widowed spouse getting full membership are pretty liberal. But let's face it, women are still second class citizens.

Minor but annoying. Huge member-guest tourney on Wednesday. There were 140 people; I was one of three women in the field. We invited two clients.

In the men's locker room, each guest had a special locker (they set aside guest lockers) with his name on it. There's a bar right outside, and after the tourney, they had a waiter going back and forth taking drink orders.

As the spouse of a non-equity member, I'm in the weird position of being neither a member nor a guest. I don't have my own locker. There are no guest lockers in the women's locker room. There isn't even a coat rack. No attendant in sight that day. When I was showering/changing/becoming naturally beautiful after the round, all I could think was how much I wanted something to drink. No one taking orders. Even if I'd called the bar on the house phone, the wait staff is all male, so no one could have brought me anything.

Don't even get me going about men only first thing on weekend mornings. Women get Tuesdays and Thursdays. Whippee! I work.

I know we don't have a whole lot of female club members here, but you guys have significant others. How are your clubs doing about treating men and women equally.

I'm not a member of a club for more reasons than the discrimination aspect. I just don't like the overall holier than thou mindset that you see at most private clubs. I could never be comfortable in an environment such as you describe, even if I was one of the men that they are catering to. My wife wouldn't stand for such treatment, and I wouldn't expect her to. I really don't understand your husband's attitude. I grew up in the late 40's and 50's, but I developed my adult mores in the 60's and 70's (graduated high school in 1964). That includes a rabid opposition to discrimination of any sort. I am not a political liberal, but I don't feel that you have to be one to know that bigotry in any form is wrong.


When my wife and I play together (not as often as I would like), we play at one of the many public courses nearby, or we go to one of the very nice mountain courses west of town. We have never encountered the sort of biased treatment you seem to deal with regularly. If we ever did, that course would never see us again. But then when they are in it for the fees, they have to be more accommodating.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

I don't understand, at all, the "men only weekend tee times" thing. WTF??

That's complete B.S. The only justification I can think of is that men want to play the course without any women on it. And that's no justification.

If it is the men's league, that's fine. But they get ONE weekend morning. Not both. And they should alternate. In fact, the women's league should get the other weekend morning. Make a rule that if the league doesn't reserve all the spots by two days before the reserved day, they open up to the other gender.*

The unequal service is also steer poo.



Sorry Claire, I still disagree with your narrow definition of "gender."

 

[PRO V1 KENOBE]

The courses that i am a member of give women all the same entitlements as the gents,there are no specified ladies times,(unless its a ladies comp)no ladies tees,(there is a forward tee,the starter advises what tee to use depending on your h/cap).

Its sad you need to make a point of this in this day and age.

 

[Diane]

I don't understand, at all, the "men only weekend tee times" thing. WTF??

That's complete B.S. The only justification I can think of is that men want to play the course without any women on it. And that's no justification.

If it is the men's league, that's fine. But they get ONE weekend morning. Not both. And they should alternate. In fact, the women's league should get the other weekend morning. Make a rule that if the league doesn't reserve all the spots by two days before the reserved day, they open up to the other gender.*

The unequal service is also steer poo.



Sorry Claire, I still disagree with your narrow definition of "gender."

Harry - It's a holdover from when the men were the club member and women were the spouse. Women members are a recent thing and it's taken clubs time to roll with the program. I would bet that Claire's hubby is the member of their club.

 

[soxngolf]

I don't understand, at all, the "men only weekend tee times" thing. WTF??

That's complete B.S. The only justification I can think of is that men want to play the course without any women on it. And that's no justification.

I have to agree with Harry here. What is with men only tee times? Are there any women members? If I was a member here, not my spouse, and couldn't get out on weekend mornings I would be pissed! Actually I straight out wouldn't be a member, maybe that is why there are so few women.
As far as the locker rooms etc, that is pretty much par for the course at a lot of places. It does confuse me though, why not make places like the bar, the card room, etc accessible to all? I get having a bigger men's locker room when you have more male members, but everyone should be able to access the extras.

 

[jefffann]

Is this the only course you can golf on the weekends? I'm wondering if the ladies were filling up the tee times at another local course on the weekends would the rules change.Money talks,b.s. walks.

 

[Diane]

I have to agree with Harry here. What is with men only tee times? Are there any women members? If I was a member here, not my spouse, and couldn't get out on weekend mornings I would be pissed! Actually I straight out wouldn't be a member, maybe that is why there are so few women.
As far as the locker rooms etc, that is pretty much par for the course at a lot of places. It does confuse me though, why not make places like the bar, the card room, etc accessible to all? I get having a bigger men's locker room when you have more male members, but everyone should be able to access the extras.

Most clubs didn't start admitting women members until the late 70's/80's - it takes time to build the female membership. If you are a full member - they have to give you a tee time. I know a couple of women who are the members at their yacht clubs and their husbands are the spouses. If you wouldn't be a member - you're just biting off your nose to spite your face. Change comes slowly in certain venues, but it comes.

You have to remember that most clubhouses were built before women could be members. The card rooms and 19th hole were built inside the men's locker room. Since men like this, clubs have been reluctant to invest the funds that would be needed to redesign the layout so women can have access. At some clubs - it would involve a complete overhaul.

 

[dynarider]

Oh, it's the golden rule-he who has the gold... .

Couldn't help but chuckle as I tell my wife the same thing. Of course she then in turn tells me to take my rule & shove it.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

Although I disagree with the inequitable facilities at a golf club, each time one of esteemed ladies posted about it, I couldn't help think of all the times I've seen lavish women's restrooms contrasted with the standard toilet and urinal men's room.

 

[ClairefromClare]

Although I disagree with the inequitable facilities at a golf club, each time one of esteemed ladies posted about it, I couldn't help think of all the times I've seen lavish women's restrooms contrasted with the standard toilet and urinal men's room.

How often are you in the women's restroom? I think of the lines out the door at women's rooms for movies, plays, concerts, etc. when there's none for the men's room.

In any event, our club is 108 years old, and Diane hit a lot of it on the head. The only way to change things is from the inside.

 

[kidzwitgunz]

Well shockingly enough down here in Texas our locker rooms are equal in every aspect. (size, lockers, tv's, sauna's, spa's, access etc) Plus the women's side gets individual showers..............not fair!

After being in the military for years I really don't care aout showering with others etc. however I think it is unfair that they don't automatically think to install seperate stalls on the guys side too, just my .02 though. Seeing as some have no respect for themselves if you get what I mean.

The 19th hole at our club is a seperate building for the "snack" area and then the actual clubroom, and "fine dining" areas are seperate and accessible by both sexes.

Far as play-time goes whoever shows up and/or calls ahead first gets the tee time regardless of whether they are male or female, young or old. On another note this makes me wonder why people think Texans as a general rule are so socially backwards/slow to change cause from the sound of things we might be just slightly ahead of or WAY in front of the curve?:confused2: