Jekyll or Hyde?

[Diane]

This is the first golf forum I've been on that had more than 2 women, which is nice. I find men's behavior around women on the golf course fascinating. It's an odd combination of sexism and chivalry. I've had men question whether it's too cold for me to be playing or refuse to join our group as an add-on - opting to wait for a group of men. My mother said in the 70's, she'd get to the club and men would ask if she had finished her housework - not my father, other men. Sometimes, if they don't know me, they'll assume that we take gimmes too and knock my ball back before I get a chance to stop them. I've also noticed that men prefer to be the ones to pull the pin, have fished a ball out of the water for me and walked over from the next hole to help me find a ball. What is up with the Jekyll & Hyde behavior?

 

[JB]

Because men (myself included) are morons. That pretty much sums it up. hehe

As for our site, we are co-owned by a woman and hope that we continue to add more female members every day it seems.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

My mother said in the 70's, she'd get to the club and men would ask if she had finished her housework -

Hoe.Lee. Carp.

Wow. I mean, I was awful young in the 70s, but my momma taught me better than to ask a question like that.

You know, I think I am LESS chivalrous on the course. Not intentionally, but because other rules apply. (For example, the first one to hole out is responsible for picking up the pin and putting it back. Closest to the hole is responsible for tending the pin for anyone far away on the green who might need it, or pulling it and setting it aside if no one does.)

On the other hand, I would offer my sweater if I thought a woman was cold, I would help her look for a ball (men too though), and I would fish it out of the water for her. But that's they way I would act on or off the course.

 

[Gummi Bear]

On the other hand, I would offer my sweater if I thought a woman was cold, I would help her look for a ball (men too though), and I would fish it out of the water for her. But that's they way I would act on or off the course.

I'm a lot the same way.

I've been pretty fortunate to have been paired with some pretty awesome gals on the course. I could pretty much just be me, and it usually doesn't take them long to tune into giving me a hard time when I'm trying to concentrate.

I play with my wife and my mom pretty often, so basically the only thing I have to consciously dial back is the volume of my cussing at myself for doing something dumb.

 

[julie_m]

Sometimes, if they don't know me, they'll assume that we take gimmes too and knock my ball back before I get a chance to stop them.

This spring I had a man (who's not a usual playing partner) hand me my ball once when we were each looking for our balls. I was confused and asked where he found it, he said "in the rough over there." GRRRR!

The occasional exception aside (mostly the pros), I find men to be polite enough. Some are indeed even sweet. If they do anything it's more watching than interacting (which I find impolite, but I guess at least it's not in an aggressive way).

(If anyone's wondering, I underhand tossed my ball back into the rough and played it. I got just to the side of the green in the next shot, but didn't feel honest, so I put an x on my scorecard.)


EDIT: This post sounds so grumpy. I do like men, and appreciate the help when they ask or I ask.

 

[mchepp]

I think...I am guilty of this. Usually I play with woman whose husband is in the group also. The husband, I and usually another guy will hit from the back tees and then invariably I will forget that the woman still needs to hit from her tees and I will be somewhere down the fairway whilst she is hitting. It is terrible of me, I know.

The Titleist commercials with Scott Van Pelt apply to me.

Sorry.

 

[RocketSauce]

Because men (myself included) are morons. That pretty much sums it up. hehe

not me! whenever i play with a woman, i instinctively know exactly what is going to offend her, what wont offend her, and how she wants the males around her to act.
(and of course i am joking about this)

 

[Harry Longshanks]

not me! whenever i play with a woman, i instinctively know exactly what is going to offend her, what wont offend her, and how she wants the males around her to act.
(and of course i am not joking about this)

Don't worry Rocket, we all already knew you were a woman from your other posts.

 

[provisional]

It all goes back to a male's child hood, and their up bringing. As we turn into men, some of us do a decent job while others are so into male bonding that they forget to be gentlemen. Like JB posted we can, and have been morons some times when dealing with women. Been there, done that...I have.

On a golf course it boils down to either being out played by a women, for the man to hit a bad shot in front of a women, shyness by the guy, or that slow play thing some men will assume women will cause. Both of my daughters who I showed the game to can out play their husbands regardless of which tees they play from. The boys know their place on the golf course. Being a sports minded guy, with out sons, I taught my girls to play sports as well as most boys. Saved me a ton of money in college fees.

Personally playing with a women is no big deal to me. My personal family life is void of males except for two son in laws, and "Mik" the dog. When I was in business, I had quite a few women working in important positions that they were better at than I, or other men were. I could trust them. If a women out plays me on the golf course, so be it. She had to play well, and golf played well is fun to watch. I very seldom run into single women golfers who do not play well. Most of the women I see who are lacking in their game are with a guy who is trying to teach them the golf swing, but can't swing the club him self. Will I go out of my way with out being asked to help? No, because that is not my place, and I tend to mind own business. Now if a women asks me for some help with her golf swing, I'm there, and after showing her a few drills to work on she will eventually play better.

These guys who bother women on a golf course, are just troubled souls, who are probably married to someone's bitchy sister. That being said, let us not forget about some women who want to play the sexual harassment card at the drop of a hat.

Just a note. This evening I will playing with 13 year old young lady, and her father. She will kick both our back sides from the men's tees. Her father, and I will enjoy watching her play, but the nassau will be between us.:clapp:

 

[RocketSauce]

Don't worry Rocket, we all already knew you were a woman from your other posts.

im an idiot...i meant to say (and of course i AM joking about this)...i have since fixed it :confused2:

 

[OFvar]

i dont judge by sex on the course...but women are stereotyped from the women who insist that men are against them and consequently wont let them play through for anything(those women tend to be bad golfers):confused2:

i once played behind a two some of women walking (for a little while anyway until they pulled away) who played from the mens tees...it was funny cause all the guys were watching them tee of on the first hole :act-up:

 

[OFvar]

who played from the mens tees...

sorry...back tees

 

[ClairefromClare]

not me! whenever i play with a woman, i instinctively know exactly what is going to offend her, what wont offend her, and how she wants the males around her to act.
(and of course i am joking about this) And then I deliberately proceed to offend her.

FIFY! (Ya know I love you, RS)

 

[julie_m]

I think...I am guilty of this. Usually I play with woman whose husband is in the group also. The husband, I and usually another guy will hit from the back tees and then invariably I will forget that the woman still needs to hit from her tees and I will be somewhere down the fairway whilst she is hitting. It is terrible of me, I know.

The Titleist commercials with Scott Van Pelt apply to me.

Sorry.

At least three out of every 18 holes we play, my boyfriend walks right by or drives the cart right past my tees and has to turn around so I can tee off. And we play a lot! (That's what happens when you let a man drive. :roll

 

[Smallville]

I try to get Jacqui to drive but she doesn't want to! She basically has no choice when I say, "I'm going over there to find my ball, I'll meet you up at the green!"

 

[C-Tech]

I have played golf with a variety of people, quite a few of them turned out to be female. I don't get the difference when you are on the course. Why would I be more polite and helpful to a female than to a male in my group? Gender does not affect whether or not your ball ended up in the water (I would help to retrieve it), if it was lost (I would help look), if the flag needed tending (I would do it), if the flag needed to be replace after everyone holed out (I would do it). None of those things are gender based or gender biased....Courtesy is a good thing regardless of your playing companion's gender. As far as picking up their ball or knocking it back to them....no way! Male or female, we are playing golf and we play by the rules.

Now on the street, I was raised by a Father with old fashioned views about how ladies should be treated. We opened doors, offered our arms on treacherous terrain, removed our hats and watched our language. The definition of a "lady" was any woman, period. Those lessons run deep in me and I have been bemused by some of the unfriendly looks I have gotten over the years when I opened a door for some lady who obviously thought I was making a statement about her ability to take care of herself...so be it. I am who I am.

 

[Craig Mac]

I always treat women with the same respect as the men on the course.

Today we were paired behind a group of 4 women, I would say all in their mid 40's(not relevant but just setting the scene). The starter sent us down to the tee to tee off behind them and the two guys we were paired with pulled up to the middle tee while the women were on the forward tee, my buddy and I stayed back further to properly "give them the tee". The guys walk over to us and are talking loudly as the women are teeing off at which point I shhhsshh them and point to the ladies teeing off.

I had the "honor" on most holes and was the longest hitter of the group and I made sure the women in front of us were WELL out of range before teeing off, or on the green on par 4's. But yet we were slightly waiting on them most holes with no one in front of them. At the turn we were well back waiting for them to tee off, and one of the ladies turns around in her cart and says with a little attitude, "you might as well go ahead of us, you've been on us all morning". So we did, and all of us said thank you several times and got no response from them except one lady may have given a casual wave, or she was swatting a fly, not sure which. But now in thinking about it, we never pressed them and waited until they were WELL out of range or gone off the hole before hitting!! But yet we still got attitude from them as if we were hitting in to them or rushing them.

I'm not sure what the point of my rambling is, but I guess I could stereotype women based on the group in front of us today, but I won't. I felt we were respectful to them as a group and never pressed them, but apparently that wasn't good enough as they felt compelled to give us attitude when they let us play through.

 

[JB]

I think that happens all too much CM and that is why some of the time the stereotypes exist. The scene that you discussed happens way too often at the courses around me except the letting play through. On my course in my experience, women are the only people that never let us (meaning my group of fast golfers) play through. Not always and certainly not everywhere, but it seems at my club, it is what it is.

I would never hit into anybody man or woman, but still think if there is nobody in front of you, you should let faster golfers go ahead. Its a shame that any stereotypes exist, but they do.

 

[Craig Mac]

The thing was, our group was having a good time. Just out there enjoying the day. It's not like someone was standing on the tee behind them with a ball teed up ready to play, or waving arms/ hands on hips, ect.... We weren't pressing them at all!!

 

[julie_m]

If you were playing from the middle tees, would you expect the group behind you to come and warm up at the tee box behind you? I've never had that happen, if I'm at the women's tees or with someone at the middle tees, I've never had someone warm up or chat about the shot in a tee box behind me. They always wait to the side or sit on the benches or something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like strange behavior on the part of those two guys.

I'm not saying you were responsible for what those other guys did, but I would find it very strange if that happened to me. I can see, from their perspective, why they may have thought what they did.

 

[julie_m]

I do have a question off what you said, Craig...I posted about it a while ago and no one responded.

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?p=91059

Do you guys think anyone playing off a closer tee should be able to earn the Honor? I've never been allowed the honor (for the reason that then we'd have to turn around and go backwards).

 

[JB]

Julie,
I think depending on course layout it can be allowed. At our course, it simply is not really done because the red tees are usually 50-100 yards in front of the middle tees and because of pace of play it is not well accepted.

However this was debated before and "earning the honor" is really only set up between people playing at the same tee boxes.

 

[julie_m]

However this was debated before and "earning the honor" is really only set up between people playing at the same tee boxes.

It was? Do you have the link?

 

[Craig Mac]

If you were playing from the middle tees, would you expect the group behind you to come and warm up at the tee box behind you? I've never had that happen, if I'm at the women's tees or with someone at the middle tees, I've never had someone warm up or chat about the shot behind me. They always wait to the side or sit on the benches or something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like strange behavior on the part of those two guys.

I'm not saying you were responsible for what those other guys did, but I would find it very strange if that happened to me. I can see, from their perspective, why they may have thought what they did.

And I'm not responsibe for those two guys, never met them before. But as I said my buddy and I stayed around the "corner" to:

properly "give them the tee".

And plus as I stated:

the two guys we were paired with pulled up to the middle tee while the women were on the forward tee

I never said they were they were "warming up or chatting about the shot" behind them. The middle tee was 50 yards back from the ladies tee, they parked their cart there and then they walked 50 yards back to where we were parked on the other side of the waist high fence from the teeing area to talk to us at that point I sshhsshh'd them right away as not to disturb the ladies that were 100 yards away.

My point has gone missed on you Julie in the fact that I did more than my fair share to show these ladies respect, even going as far as telling two complete strangers to clam it while these ladies were ABOUT to tee off(before they were addressing the ball).

 

[JB]

Julie,
I believe it was debated on TGC on one of those debate shows they have. Sorry, I should have clarified.