Player -vs- Teaching Pro

[BradMorris64]

A couple of months ago I went to a highly regarded teaching pro to get my swing looked at. He came up with a list of things that I needed to work on. It has been a real struggle for me and I have actually regressed to the point I can barely break 90 right now. Last weekend I got the chance to play with a scratch golfer who (after the round, and after I paid out my skins losses) told me he thought I was standing too far away from the ball and it was throwing me completely off balance during the down swing leading to all sorts of issues, many of which mirrored the list the teaching pro had come up.

What's interesting to me is how the player was able to go right to the core of the issue (poor ball position) while the teaching pro saw all of my compensations for that poor ball position and had me trying to fix those one at a time. Which would be hopeless.

I guess it's true what they say. NEVER pass up the opportunity to play with golfers who are better than you. Even if you lose $15 in skins, that's a lot cheaper than going to a teaching pro, and you quite possibly might learn a lot more.

 

[chattab0x]

Couldn't agree more.. Love playing with players better than me that have constructive feedback at the end of the round. They always add a lot more value for me than anything else.

 

[IceyShanks]

I don't know if I entirely agree, I think scratch/really good golfers can be helpful with their information and tips, but a teaching pro is exactly that a pro to teach you the fundamentals of the game and how to improve. I don't think a scratch golfer could really do that over a long term.

 

[Buckjob]

i kinda agree with Icey here. Although i never pass up the opportunity of playing with people that are better than me i think its a great learning experience most teachers only work on one thing at a time and who's to say your teaching pro wouldn't move your ball position down the road. maybe there are things you are doing that are more important to fix first...... i know at golftec they only work on one small thing at a time before moving to something else. if i asked my instructor for a whole list my head might explode.

 

[wadesworld]

I think there's great teaching pros, good teaching pros, mediocre teaching pros and bad teaching pros. The trick is finding one in one of the first two categories.

 

[I'dHitThat]

I think there's great teaching pros, good teaching pros, mediocre teaching pros and bad teaching pros. The trick is finding one in one of the first two categories.

This, exactly. "Pro" doesn't always mean much. Kobe Bryant and Brian Scalabrine are both "pro" basketball players, but.... see where I am going with this?

 

[MarcH]

Rule of thumb: If a teacher starts working on stuff before ever making sure that ALL OF YOUR FUNDAMENTALS ARE SOUND then find a new teacher.

1. Grip
2. Posture (these two are the MOST important things in the golf swing)
3. Alignment
4. Stance
5. Ball Position


If you don't want to commit to fixing those things then you can get a teacher to band-aid your swing which might work for a week or two then cause another problem and keep paying to go in circles.

 

[I'dHitThat]

Rule of thumb: If a teacher starts working on stuff before ever making sure that ALL OF YOUR FUNDAMENTALS ARE SOUND then find a new teacher.

1. Grip
2. Posture (these two are the MOST important things in the golf swing)
3. Alignment
4. Stance
5. Ball Position


If you don't want to commit to fixing those things then you can get a teacher to band-aid your swing which might work for a week or two then cause another problem and keep paying to go in circles.

My instructor drilled Alignment, Grip, Posture, Ball Position into my head on our first lesson, every time I see him he asks me what the fundamentals are.

 

[wadesworld]

Rule of thumb: If a teacher starts working on stuff before ever making sure that ALL OF YOUR FUNDAMENTALS ARE SOUND then find a new teacher.

1. Grip
2. Posture (these two are the MOST important things in the golf swing)
3. Alignment
4. Stance
5. Ball Position


If you don't want to commit to fixing those things then you can get a teacher to band-aid your swing which might work for a week or two then cause another problem and keep paying to go in circles.

Agreed.

I'm likely in the minority, but I also think there's too much reliance on video analysis these days by many teaching pros.

Yes, video analysis is a useful tool, but when it gets overused, or when it's used in a effort to match a player's swing to a pro, it can be a dangerous thing. It can have the effect of the player thinking about far too many things - "my hands need to be lower, is my left knee flexed enough, I wonder how my wrist cock looks at the top of this backswing," etc.

I suppose it depends on how the instructor implements it, but for my money, the golf swing is about good fundamentals at setup and timing. Then you have to let the swing go.

 

[MarcH]

My instructor drilled Alignment, Grip, Posture, Ball Position into my head on our first lesson, every time I see him he asks me what the fundamentals are.

Sounds like a good one!

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

I've played with scratch golfers and I've also played with my club pro before. The difference that I saw was that the instructor was focusing on my technique such as set up and all, while the player helped me with my game strategy. The difference between these two was the following, 1. the player was using his swing and his experiences to teach me which isn't always effective for a beginner or intermediate golfer while the Instructor was using methods that he had learned to teach golfers of every level and it was based on MY swing. 2. The instructor's methods were based more on proper technique while the player focused on the "dance with the girl (or guy) you came with" by using my misses as an advantage. Honestly I learned so much from both of them but I'll still go to an instructor for help.

 

[blugold]

I bet Golftec wouldn't have missed the ball position. Just saying.

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

I bet Golftec wouldn't have missed the ball position. Just saying.

agreed, if I had a golftec in town I'd go there for everything

 

[blugold]

agreed, if I had a golftec in town I'd go there for everything

Same here. I just know the good work they do here. If they are THP recommended, they have to be good.

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

Same here. I just know the good work they do here. If they are THP recommended, they have to be good.

yes sir, the amount of help they can give without seeing a swing online really shows how good they are.

 

[IceyShanks]

Rule of thumb: If a teacher starts working on stuff before ever making sure that ALL OF YOUR FUNDAMENTALS ARE SOUND then find a new teacher.

1. Grip
2. Posture (these two are the MOST important things in the golf swing)
3. Alignment
4. Stance
5. Ball Position


If you don't want to commit to fixing those things then you can get a teacher to band-aid your swing which might work for a week or two then cause another problem and keep paying to go in circles.

Great call Marc, my teacher talked at long length about all of these before we even talked about my normal miss and swing!

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

Rule of thumb: If a teacher starts working on stuff before ever making sure that ALL OF YOUR FUNDAMENTALS ARE SOUND then find a new teacher.

1. Grip
2. Posture (these two are the MOST important things in the golf swing)
3. Alignment
4. Stance
5. Ball Position


If you don't want to commit to fixing those things then you can get a teacher to band-aid your swing which might work for a week or two then cause another problem and keep paying to go in circles.

I got really lucky with my golf instructor, the first lesson I had with him, he was really impressed at my form since I had played for a few months and learned from some better players, he really steered me in the right direction and this is how my lessons went

The first was about grip,posture, alignment, stance and ball position
The second was about putting-grip, posture, alignment and ball position and tempo/ reading greens
The third was about chipping and pitching-grip alignment etc and when to use one or the other
The fourth was about irons and the basics as well as proper release and tempo
The 5th was about the woods and driver and he showed me that I was so obsessed with holding the lag, that I never released the club properly which is why I always hit a low slice right
The 6th was a course management lesson where we played a round and he showed me how to approach each hole

Anyways, he really steered me in the right direction

 

[J4U]

I need to break down and PAY them a visit. Would for sure help with me really wanting to improve and quit trying just on my own.

LtEvO TaPpEd

 

[blugold]

The Wednesday before the Des Moines outing I was at the range and my teacher was moving carts over. Without asking, he comes over to me and grabs the alignment rods out of my bag and sets them down at my feet. He then proceeded to give me a free 20 minute lesson. If a scratch golfer comes over and does that, I call him an expletive.

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

The Wednesday before the Des Moines outing I was at the range and my teacher was moving carts over. Without asking, he comes over to me and grabs the alignment rods out of my bag and sets them down at my feet. He then proceeded to give me a free 20 minute lesson. If a scratch golfer comes over and does that, I call him an expletive.

that's really awesome, I love when skilled instructors help out for free

 

[Tadashi70]

Not every teaching pro is good or good for you. Chances are that a scratch player knows enough about the swing to assist in some improvement.

It's just important that the person you see is a good fit and actually understands the science behind the swing. I also think if you did employ a pro you have to commit to it. You can't go three times and hope what they told you will work. It's a process and takes commitment

 

[justhackin]

Not every teaching pro is good or good for you. Chances are that a scratch player knows enough about the swing to assist in some improvement.

It's just important that the person you see is a good fit and actually understands the science behind the swing. I also think if you did employ a pro you have to commit to it. You can't go three times and hope what they told you will work. It's a process and takes commitment

Yep ..... When my wife was playing large Amateur tourneys it took 6 tries to find one she liked. My ace High School player it took 4 tries. When you find one you will know it!

It would bother me if your instructor is working on multiple things at once. Normally if you fix one thing several fall in line. Changes in the fundamentals can make great strides in everything else.

FWIW playing scratch to low single digits is more than a swing...... What you learn from players like that is normally course management, emotion control and short game. How many "scratch" driving range guys do you know? I know a few....

hackin

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

Not every teaching pro is good or good for you. Chances are that a scratch player knows enough about the swing to assist in some improvement.

It's just important that the person you see is a good fit and actually understands the science behind the swing. I also think if you did employ a pro you have to commit to it. You can't go three times and hope what they told you will work. It's a process and takes commitment

Now I'd pay good money for a lesson from Freddie, he's already helped my swing so much without even being here in person lol

 

[BradMorris64]

I didn't disregard the teaching pros advice, but the ball position correction suggested by the player has sure made working on the things the pro noted so much easier, now that I'm not fighting an off balance downswing. The other thing I will add is that the player spent 5 - 8 minutes stretching before even picking up a club. Mostly hip, glute and calf muscles. And, he had the same intensity over a bogey as he did over a birdie putt. He shot -1 on the front but then finished 4 over on the back on a 131 slope rated course. He was not happy walking off 18.

 

[Mulligan9111]

I didn't disregard the teaching pros advice, but the ball position correction suggested by the player has sure made working on the things the pro noted so much easier, now that I'm not fighting an off balance downswing. The other thing I will add is that the player spent 5 - 8 minutes stretching before even picking up a club. Mostly hip, glute and calf muscles. And, he had the same intensity over a bogey as he did over a birdie putt. He shot -1 on the front but then finished 4 over on the back on a 131 slope rated course. He was not happy walking off 18.

It's not the teaching pro's fault if your ball position got out of whack while he wasn't there. It sounds like the things he wants you to work on came easier once you fixed your ball position. Unless he told you to use that certain ball position, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt here.

Sorry if I came off like a jerk. I really don't know what your instructor told you, and I also don't know if your instructor is good or not. I just know that I've worked on things my instructor told me to work on before, and it didn't work out until he saw I was doing something wrong.