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Did anybody see the ESPN Outside The Lines piece about Tiger Woods and African Americans in Golf? I found it puzzling to say the least and wanted to get some other takes on the matter.
Outside the Lines
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I didn't even know about it. I'll have to check out a replay.
JB,
I never saw it, but read the article on ESPN's website about the topic. Apparently, Eddie Payton is asking why TW embrace that he is African American. He wonders why there aren't any other prominent AA golfers on the professional tours. The simple answer is resources.
This will probably start a debate, but I will tell my side, a Caucasian male. My wife is also a mixture of different cultures, as TW states. Her heritage is African American, Caucasian, and Native American. However, she is looked upon as a African American. IMO, I believe the reason you don't see more African Americans in professional golf are resources. Let me explain what I mean.
First, it starts in the family. There are limited resources that won't allow young African American golfers to take up the sport. However, this is changing as more African American families are progressing up the economic ladder.
Next, the African American golf schools lack resources for this great sport. The resources that are in place are geared towards other sports, like basketball and football.
Finally, most African Americans do not have the contacts that are required to get exceptions into professional events. The African American players must take the long journey through qualifiers and Q school thus further discouraging them from accomplishing their dreams due to resources, since they must pay as they go.
Individuals may not understand what I am talking about or may disagree totally. Let me give you my wife's, Callaway Girl, story. I am not bitter in anyway and have seen first hand the difference. Personally, I will try to help CG accomplish her dream of playing professional golf on the big stage someday.
As a child, golf wasn't offered at CG's public school. Even, if it was, her parents could not afford the golf clubs, lessons, course fees, etc. Instead she played fast pitch softball her entire childhood.
CG was introduced to the game of golf later in life after she completed her graduate degree and her career was on track. At this time, she could afford the equipment, lessons, and golf memberships.
Last year, while CG was practicing at her club, we saw a African American collegiate team practicing. They were on the putting green, chipping green, and range with CG. I noticed their coach trying to teach them various things (putting stroke, chipping stroke, etc), but he executed these things horrible.
After about two hours, CG was finishing up on the range, when the collegiate coach came up to CG and asked if she wanted a golf scholarship. At first, we thought he was joking, but the more he talked, we realized he was serious. He stated that his best player shot in the high 80's. CG politely declined his offer. Then, we started conversing among ourselves, on how could this golf team ever succeed on the collegiate stage with scores like that.
I realized that the university probably didn't have the resources to hire a top notch coach. In addition, they didn't have all of the top equipment endorsers like the other predominately Caucasian universities. I see them every summer with matching golf bags with their school's logos embroidered on the pockets. They all wear matching golf gear at practice and usually are accompanied by three to four coaches versus only one as the African American university.
Currently, CG is taking the long road to the professional tour. She works full time and devotes 40-50 hours per week to practicing her golf game. In addition, to the practice, we spend thousands of dollars each year on equipment, lessons, memberships, etc. Since, neither one of us have the contacts that are required to get exemptions onto the big stage, CG will take the Q school route.
In association with her golf game we developed a professional portfolio for her. It is sad, but in women's golf your looks have a lot to do with your exposure. Maybe, some day, people will focus on the skill sets versus the entire package (skill, looks, intelligence, etc).
There are differences in golf that I see each year. There have been numerous times when CG is playing on a RTJ course that others look at her like she doesn't belong. I make this statement because I have seen prejudice situations my entire life. Sometimes, CG is asked for proof of play in the middle of a round after she has already presented her credentials at the start of the round. Unfortunately, this still exist in our world.
I never saw it, but read the article on ESPN's website about the topic. Apparently, Eddie Payton is asking why TW embrace that he is African American. He wonders why there aren't any other prominent AA golfers on the professional tours. The simple answer is resources.
This will probably start a debate, but I will tell my side, a Caucasian male. My wife is also a mixture of different cultures, as TW states. Her heritage is African American, Caucasian, and Native American. However, she is looked upon as a African American. IMO, I believe the reason you don't see more African Americans in professional golf are resources. Let me explain what I mean.
First, it starts in the family. There are limited resources that won't allow young African American golfers to take up the sport. However, this is changing as more African American families are progressing up the economic ladder.
Next, the African American golf schools lack resources for this great sport. The resources that are in place are geared towards other sports, like basketball and football.
Finally, most African Americans do not have the contacts that are required to get exceptions into professional events. The African American players must take the long journey through qualifiers and Q school thus further discouraging them from accomplishing their dreams due to resources, since they must pay as they go.
Individuals may not understand what I am talking about or may disagree totally. Let me give you my wife's, Callaway Girl, story. I am not bitter in anyway and have seen first hand the difference. Personally, I will try to help CG accomplish her dream of playing professional golf on the big stage someday.
As a child, golf wasn't offered at CG's public school. Even, if it was, her parents could not afford the golf clubs, lessons, course fees, etc. Instead she played fast pitch softball her entire childhood.
CG was introduced to the game of golf later in life after she completed her graduate degree and her career was on track. At this time, she could afford the equipment, lessons, and golf memberships.
Last year, while CG was practicing at her club, we saw a African American collegiate team practicing. They were on the putting green, chipping green, and range with CG. I noticed their coach trying to teach them various things (putting stroke, chipping stroke, etc), but he executed these things horrible.
After about two hours, CG was finishing up on the range, when the collegiate coach came up to CG and asked if she wanted a golf scholarship. At first, we thought he was joking, but the more he talked, we realized he was serious. He stated that his best player shot in the high 80's. CG politely declined his offer. Then, we started conversing among ourselves, on how could this golf team ever succeed on the collegiate stage with scores like that.
I realized that the university probably didn't have the resources to hire a top notch coach. In addition, they didn't have all of the top equipment endorsers like the other predominately Caucasian universities. I see them every summer with matching golf bags with their school's logos embroidered on the pockets. They all wear matching golf gear at practice and usually are accompanied by three to four coaches versus only one as the African American university.
Currently, CG is taking the long road to the professional tour. She works full time and devotes 40-50 hours per week to practicing her golf game. In addition, to the practice, we spend thousands of dollars each year on equipment, lessons, memberships, etc. Since, neither one of us have the contacts that are required to get exemptions onto the big stage, CG will take the Q school route.
In association with her golf game we developed a professional portfolio for her. It is sad, but in women's golf your looks have a lot to do with your exposure. Maybe, some day, people will focus on the skill sets versus the entire package (skill, looks, intelligence, etc).
There are differences in golf that I see each year. There have been numerous times when CG is playing on a RTJ course that others look at her like she doesn't belong. I make this statement because I have seen prejudice situations my entire life. Sometimes, CG is asked for proof of play in the middle of a round after she has already presented her credentials at the start of the round. Unfortunately, this still exist in our world.
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UR Away,
I appreciate your thoughts into this post and agree with some of them. But I have to ask, why are those pictures so clearly photoshopped? I am sure there is a purpose to it, and I am just curious.
I appreciate your thoughts into this post and agree with some of them. But I have to ask, why are those pictures so clearly photoshopped? I am sure there is a purpose to it, and I am just curious.
Callaway Girl
Living the Dream
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I am not going to bring this too far off topic, but people always say the same thing about Natalie Gulbis that she is more interested in outside modeling deals rather than her golf game. Why include a shot in a bathing suit if you want to be taken seriously as a golfer from companies looking to sponsor amateurs? I have worked with those people a long time and trust me, if they are scouting looks, they will find it in golf clothes.
Callaway Girl
Living the Dream
Do they really? Why does Anna Rawson, Natalie Gulbis, Christie Kerr, etc have so many pictures outside of golf on their website and in circulation around the internet? I was showing my different personalities outside of golf. My website, which will be released next month, will display all types of poses in different styles of clothes, to include golf outfits.
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- #9
I do not know one of those girls that put those pictures out before sponsorship. In fact I know that Natalie used to say NO because ING asked her to wait until sponsorship.
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- #10
I want to add one more thing. If your goal is getting sponsorship on tour, I really suggest you speak with some companies before hand and find out what they are looking for. I will of course not say you are getting good or bad advice, but I do think the more information you get from these companies might keep you on a better track.
Callaway Girl
Living the Dream
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I think a lot of sponsorships are based on skills. Sure a couple of times girls get "that extra push" based on appearance. Or someone may get an extra sponsor because of it. But breaking in, I dont know anybody that went that route.
Callaway Girl
Living the Dream
ActionJackson8
KAHHHHHNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!
JB I have not seen this yet but as somone who is more caucasion/yugoslavian than I am African, I too am labled as African American due to my outward appearence. I fought it hard growing up, even rejected the best African American player of the year award TWICE in highschool. I've sort of given up fighting it though to be honest, just hasn't been worth it.
SeeMoreGuy
They Make 'em. I Buy 'em.
Interesting write up folks. I have another aspect of the whole AA concept of golf. When I was growing up we lived on a golf course and I never picked up a club because I just wasnt interested. My father played but he never forced me too. Looking back I wished I had played years ago as he and I could have had some great rounds together. I wish we could now play a round together, but since he has passed away I cherish all the other memories we made.
Since taking up the sport about 18 months ago I have gained a huge appreciation for it and the talented players on tour. It is unfortunate we have only had a handful of AA players to ever reach the highest ranks. I was totally unaware of the Charlie Siffords and Ted Rhodes until I watched the Golf Channel air their special back in Feb. Before the special the only players I knew of were Calvn Peete and Jim Thorpe.
I have to agree the reason we are absence is due to resources and perhaps the lack of interest of young black males. I am not leaving out AA women who have made siginficant inroads in their own right and I fully support CallawayGirl's goal and ambition to make it to the BIG SHOW. Keep on Living the Dream.
As we all know you get an inner feeling of pride when someone famous or successful is of your same persuasion be it white, black, asian, or any other catagory you want. Looking at the golf world, can you name any AA caddies. I cant and neither can any of my friends. African Americans have been somewhat removed from the access/priviledges to the game these days. With the injection of Tiger who has brought a new found interest to the game for many of all races/creeds ects the long-term effect will be more diversity; but we are looking at another 10 years. I think having the game become more global will have a huge effect on more minorities being prominent fixtures. However, outside of Asia, which seems to cultivate their players better than any other nationality what is really being done to assist African Americans, Latinos and the many other ethnicities.
Now, I am not talking about the First Tee programs. It is a great program in its own right, but something more substantial is needed. We now have more AA families with resources to provide specialized training and coaching for their sons and daughters. I believe this latest generation is probably the first to actually witness their fathers actively engaged in recreational golf which should lead to more interest. However, taking that interest and developing those who are talented and willing to sacrifice as CG and many others are doing is another topic all together.
On a final note: As far as the "old school" way of thinking, some have never changed. Just yesterday I was playing in a tournament and was struggling with putting my bag on the cart when a white gentelman walked up to me and handed me 5 bucks for putting "his" bag on the cart. Now he could have mistaken me for someone else, but you have to acknowledge the irony in all this because why would the first impression be I was "working" versus playing at the course. This is just one example of how the "old school" mindset must change. I was taken aback initially, but realized that sometimes things take a lot longer to change than we like. As for the five spot; the beer sure tasted good.
Just kidding....I gave the money back.
Food for thought.
Since taking up the sport about 18 months ago I have gained a huge appreciation for it and the talented players on tour. It is unfortunate we have only had a handful of AA players to ever reach the highest ranks. I was totally unaware of the Charlie Siffords and Ted Rhodes until I watched the Golf Channel air their special back in Feb. Before the special the only players I knew of were Calvn Peete and Jim Thorpe.
I have to agree the reason we are absence is due to resources and perhaps the lack of interest of young black males. I am not leaving out AA women who have made siginficant inroads in their own right and I fully support CallawayGirl's goal and ambition to make it to the BIG SHOW. Keep on Living the Dream.
As we all know you get an inner feeling of pride when someone famous or successful is of your same persuasion be it white, black, asian, or any other catagory you want. Looking at the golf world, can you name any AA caddies. I cant and neither can any of my friends. African Americans have been somewhat removed from the access/priviledges to the game these days. With the injection of Tiger who has brought a new found interest to the game for many of all races/creeds ects the long-term effect will be more diversity; but we are looking at another 10 years. I think having the game become more global will have a huge effect on more minorities being prominent fixtures. However, outside of Asia, which seems to cultivate their players better than any other nationality what is really being done to assist African Americans, Latinos and the many other ethnicities.
Now, I am not talking about the First Tee programs. It is a great program in its own right, but something more substantial is needed. We now have more AA families with resources to provide specialized training and coaching for their sons and daughters. I believe this latest generation is probably the first to actually witness their fathers actively engaged in recreational golf which should lead to more interest. However, taking that interest and developing those who are talented and willing to sacrifice as CG and many others are doing is another topic all together.
On a final note: As far as the "old school" way of thinking, some have never changed. Just yesterday I was playing in a tournament and was struggling with putting my bag on the cart when a white gentelman walked up to me and handed me 5 bucks for putting "his" bag on the cart. Now he could have mistaken me for someone else, but you have to acknowledge the irony in all this because why would the first impression be I was "working" versus playing at the course. This is just one example of how the "old school" mindset must change. I was taken aback initially, but realized that sometimes things take a lot longer to change than we like. As for the five spot; the beer sure tasted good.
Just kidding....I gave the money back.
Food for thought.
ActionJackson8
KAHHHHHNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!
Keith I agree on some points but as a young AA males myself (going on 23 here soon) none of my playing partners are AA, when I mention the sport to AA friends they usually make a joke about me "not really being black" or something of that nature. I think attitudes like that are just as damaging as those who may try to keep AA's out of the sport.
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Anytime race is a conversation, we are walkind on thin lines, and I hope we can all have this conversation intelligently without any issues. If someone does have any issues, please PM myself, GG, or Hacker and we will close this thread.
I agree with each post that more is needed to be done with the PGA. Baseball has suffered similar results in the past 5-10 years in the US and now the percentages are way down for African Americans in that sport.
However what nobody ever brings up are the statistics in other sports. For instance in both the NBA and the NFL. There is no outcry to bring basketball to areas to have more Caucasians in the leagues. I am curious more from the social aspect. If someone brought that up in the media, would that not be considered racist?
I am curious as to what others think about the overall aspects of this matter.
I agree with each post that more is needed to be done with the PGA. Baseball has suffered similar results in the past 5-10 years in the US and now the percentages are way down for African Americans in that sport.
However what nobody ever brings up are the statistics in other sports. For instance in both the NBA and the NFL. There is no outcry to bring basketball to areas to have more Caucasians in the leagues. I am curious more from the social aspect. If someone brought that up in the media, would that not be considered racist?
I am curious as to what others think about the overall aspects of this matter.
SeeMoreGuy
They Make 'em. I Buy 'em.
Good point JB and true as true can be. I for one am always eager to discuss all issues openly but as you metion whenever you bring race/religon into a conversation people can get emotionally tied in. I agree with AJ8 that some of the younger AA males are drawn more to basketball than golf or even soccer. Why, I guess the allure is just not there, but I think the lack of exposure may be an even larger culprit.
Yes, you are probably right about the basketball reference as well and I can see it being a "can't have you cake and eat it too" situation. But, I see the NBA recruiting talented players from all walks of life to play. They are certainly looking for talent regardless of race. They have even established the NBA Development Leage to usher those with talent into the NBA. I understand golf is much more individualized than the NBA, NFL or MLB and may not be condusive to that type of structure; my only hope is that we can openly dialog about situations specific to any group. If not, I completely understand having to discontinue.
Cheers
Yes, you are probably right about the basketball reference as well and I can see it being a "can't have you cake and eat it too" situation. But, I see the NBA recruiting talented players from all walks of life to play. They are certainly looking for talent regardless of race. They have even established the NBA Development Leage to usher those with talent into the NBA. I understand golf is much more individualized than the NBA, NFL or MLB and may not be condusive to that type of structure; my only hope is that we can openly dialog about situations specific to any group. If not, I completely understand having to discontinue.
Cheers
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Well said Keith. And I agree that other sports are going after talent. My thoughts were though that when it is a sport that is predominantly AA, it is usually brought up as "there are less opportunities". And in fairness there was and is. However nobody can bring up that these other sports have very little Caucasians. There is no proper answer as to why they are not in these other sports. But most would say that "they just are not as talented" in that sport. However nobody would be allowed to say or bring that topic up as it pertains to most minorities because of the racism view.
Sometimes I just call it "it is what it is". It sucks for sure but its reality. Less than 10% of the NBA is Caucasian. Nobody can point a finger to why less Caucasians play basketball or less AA's play golf. But my opinion could be right or wrong, but here it is, Caucasians have gone away from basketball as kids for the same reason that AA's have gone away from Baseball. Because they do not see people like themselves playing it on tv.
Golf is a different animal altogether. I believe that two reasons keep minorities out of golf.
1st - The economics behind it are a big part of it.
2nd - As AJ said, most think golf ISNT COOL.
Sometimes I just call it "it is what it is". It sucks for sure but its reality. Less than 10% of the NBA is Caucasian. Nobody can point a finger to why less Caucasians play basketball or less AA's play golf. But my opinion could be right or wrong, but here it is, Caucasians have gone away from basketball as kids for the same reason that AA's have gone away from Baseball. Because they do not see people like themselves playing it on tv.
Golf is a different animal altogether. I believe that two reasons keep minorities out of golf.
1st - The economics behind it are a big part of it.
2nd - As AJ said, most think golf ISNT COOL.
SeeMoreGuy
They Make 'em. I Buy 'em.
Right on point JB. If someone brought up the need to have more Caucasians in the NBA there would be the outcry of racism. The same goes for there being very few AA swimmers. I can understand it either but it is just the way it is. Eventually we all end up playing all sports and it is due to the exposure to that respective sport which ultimately breeds the talent to perform it at the highest level. It took Earl Woods twenty years to get Tiger to where his today. I am sure there is a young man in the Ukraine training to be the next MLB superstar. We are all the same once you really break it down; just looking for the opportunity to show where we best fit in.
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ActionJackson8
KAHHHHHNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!
I just have to share Keith I am laughing about the swimmer comment, not only do I play golf but I was Swim/Water Polo Captain in high school and college. I stood out in the water lol.
Love all the comments and unfortunately racism still exists whether your are white, black, asian, etc. I see this everyday, being in a interracial marriage. I receive nasty looks from AA because CG is on my arm. She receives nasty looks because I am on her arm.
I am glad that we can have a open conversation about this topic. In response to your comments JB about limited whites in the NBA and anyone besides Hispanics and Asians in the MLB.
I believe that the reason more AA are in the NBA goes back to resources. AA families can afford a basketball and goal for their kids, so AA kids start playing basketball at a very early age and thus devote every moment into getting better. Since there are limited Caucasians in the NBA, I feel that white kids don't care much about the sport and thus don't devote all of their time to it. Maybe, they have other avenues of sports, so basketball is not as important.
I am glad that we can have a open conversation about this topic. In response to your comments JB about limited whites in the NBA and anyone besides Hispanics and Asians in the MLB.
I believe that the reason more AA are in the NBA goes back to resources. AA families can afford a basketball and goal for their kids, so AA kids start playing basketball at a very early age and thus devote every moment into getting better. Since there are limited Caucasians in the NBA, I feel that white kids don't care much about the sport and thus don't devote all of their time to it. Maybe, they have other avenues of sports, so basketball is not as important.
HardcoreLooper
Amateur cropduster
The last A/A caddy I can think of was Lee Trevino's caddy, Herman Mitchell. For the life of me, I cannot think of another A/A caddy after him.
Economics definitely plays a role in access. I grew up playing the game, but that's because I worked at a club. Even though my dad and grandfather were avid golfers, I had to make it happen for myself. I was by no means deprived, but golf just sets a much higher bar than even your average middle class kid can reach.
Our local First Tee has a pretty decent Par 62 course, and an annual membership for a kid under 18 is $400. Not bad, but you still need a car to get to the golf course. How are inner-city kids supposed to get out to the 'burbs?
I am glad to see kids of all ethnic backgrounds there, many of whom are real players. I'm hoping that Tiger may just be a bit ahead of the curve.