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Why don't more women participate in golf forums?

hey everyone. I am sorry I posted and "left the building". Working gets in the way of having fun.

But I had the most fun today, since Monday. I got to interview Golfer Gal on my blog.

I hope you enjoy her interview about THP. I know I did!

I'll be back!!!!

Thanks for making me feel welcome. I will encourage more of my women golfer friends to come here.

Cheers
Gayle
 
Just listened to the interview, a shout out to both Harry and Smalls!

Ok, so Harry brought GolfGal, Claire and me, (jules?)...quite the ladies man!
 
Allow me to apologize for all fellow male golfers! We can't help that we're still a bit simian by nature. Just kidding, but here's some random stream of consciousness style reaction of one forum golf dude to the issues raised here:

I've never seen a woman player treated with disrespect on the course in my proximity and I wouldn't stand for it if I did -- same as exasperation about playing with young golfers, or with my occasionally crappy play for that matter. (Obviously, I suppose I can't say I've never witnessed silly overt flirting with cart girls, but let's face it, there's a bit of self-selection in that.)

Two of my favorite playing partners are both women. Both shoot between 90-110 on any given day. We have a great time when we play.

As to forum interactions with the opposite sex. In the end, we are human and we shouldn't pretend the biological imperative doesn't exist. A bit of forum flirting, preening, picture posting, or even sex-based humor or other commentary is going to happen in any community, and when it is one dominated by men, naturally those pix, statements, etc. are going to run in a common direction. But it isn't really something that requires saber rattling at every instance so long as it doesn't push the boundaries of acceptable community banter. Spoiler tags and judgment are helpful commodities of course -- there's a continuum, and people are going to inadvertently, innocently, mistakenly, or stupidly slip over the line from time to time; and some will blow past it and deservedly face reprimand. But if any and all reference to female attractiveness or the appreciation of human sexuality is forbidden because it is a soft spot historically for golf, that also could tend to make the forum hostile to fun community growth and interaction as well.

Um what else? Oh, when I show up at the 1st tee and if I'm paired with a female golfer, I'm happy to have the company of someone other than a dude, regardless how well she plays. I also tend to believe that attitude cannot be that uncommon ... at least among the guys with whom I golf it's not. So my point, I guess, is that the ladies should do their best not to feel self conscious until you're given reason, as we guys may not secretly be harboring such inhospitable mindsets as you may suppose. (On the other hand, essentially being eye-stalked for your last two holes is reprehensible and utterly unacceptable, and you could report it to the management when you're done and be totally justified in doing so.)
 
julie_m said:
That's the thing - you have to play an awesome few holes to be considered at the level to even be in their foursome. If you don't play some of the best holes of your life, you don't gain that respect.
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soxngolf said:
I agree that it can put some pressure on, but most guys on the course aren't very good. I think the stat is something like only 10% of golfers break 100 regularly. That thought can help a lot on the course, the men probably aren't that much better than most women out there.
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I half disagree Julie. I think you only need to be better, or even as good, as just one of the guys you are paired with. And as sox pointed out, most of the time that's not very hard to do! Jacqui has yet to be the worst golfer in any group we have been paired into. (Of course, she had several lessons, a bunch of range sessions and about six or seven rounds on our executive course before I took her to a regular course). And I guarantee you, if you can putt (she can, and better than most guys I have played with), that will take care of most everything, since most of our playing partners seem impressed after she hits that 20 footer up close or drains it while they take 3 putts or worse from 10 or 15 feet. I've noticed that women tend to hit more fairways than guys do and (and I don't remember who said it on this forum) aren't always trying to kill it, so they don't spend as much time as guys looking for balls way off the fairways! (I know this from experience, unfortunately!)

As far as forums go, Jacqui would rather go to a game site and play games than type a bunch of stuff after being on the computer all day working. That doesn't apply to me because I am on the computer all day too but I can see how people want to get away from using a keyboard once work is over.

EDIT: I personally don't care how good or bad anyone is as long as they don't hold up play.
 
worst_shot_ever said:
As to forum interactions with the opposite sex. In the end, we are human and we shouldn't pretend the biological imperative doesn't exist. A bit of forum flirting, preening, picture posting, or even sex-based humor or other commentary is going to happen in any community, and when it is one dominated by men, naturally those pix, statements, etc. are going to run in a common direction. But it isn't really something that requires saber rattling at every instance so long as it doesn't push the boundaries of acceptable community banter. Spoiler tags and judgment are helpful commodities of course -- there's a continuum, and people are going to inadvertently, innocently, mistakenly, or stupidly slip over the line from time to time; and some will blow past it and deservedly face reprimand. But if any and all reference to female attractiveness or the appreciation of human sexuality is forbidden because it is a soft spot historically for golf, that also could tend to make the forum hostile to fun community growth and interaction as well.
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All I can add there is to reiterate that the way to get more women on fori is to have more women on fori. Remember group think? The boorishness seems to come from guys just egging each other on, in some sort of downward spiral. I can say from personal experience that the occasional gentle reminder that there are women around can halt that abruptly.

Spoiler
My tagline at the Frat Party is "Nanny in the Man Cave," and it's appropriate.
 
I finally got a chance to listen to GG's interview with Golf Gal. Well done by both parties. I enjoyed it.
 
soxngolf said:
Just listened to the interview, a shout out to both Harry and Smalls!

Ok, so Harry brought GolfGal, Claire and me, (jules?)...quite the ladies man!
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JB said:
I finally got a chance to listen to GG's interview with Golf Gal. Well done by both parties. I enjoyed it.
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Ditto--it was fun.

GolfGal, do you have any stats on hits to your blog? If would be so cool if we got more members here as a result of that.
 
I just listened to GolferGals interview. Now I know what all that above meant!

I thought both JB's and GG's interviews were very good and promoted the site well. Good job both of you!
 
When I was in grad school I worked in the Humanities computer lab. One of my co-administrators was doing a PhD in education. His basic premise was that the internet (and this cool new tech called the World Wide Web, yes I'm that old) would revolutionize learning and enable free and open conversation about difficult topics (sexual harassment, racism, politics). His belief was that by making communication anonymous, the dialogue could be freed from stigma and fear of management or community repercussion.

(Stick with me, I'm going somewhere with this!)

I helped him by saving text logs from some of the early chat rooms I participated in, also from usenet threads. We basically shot his premise all to heck. What his dissertation turned into was the basic fact that truly anonymous communication does not work, because there is a significant portion of the population that cannot handle anonymity. Once you tell them that there's no punishment for opinions, some folks say the darndest things.

One of the incidents that he used as a basis was from a chatroom I participated in on blues music. There was a woman on the board as well as a couple of "regular" guys. MJ (who I still kept in touch with until a couple years ago) could hold her own in knowledge about the artists and music, no problem.

However, as the site got more popular, new folks came in. One day a couple guys started harassing MJ about wanting photos, addresses, etc. When they were called out by the guys who hung out there, they switched usernames to mimic the "regulars" admitting that they liked homosexual relationships. It spiraled out of control to the point where the chatroom was closed down for a while. In a lot of forums on the internet today, it's never gotten any better.

I guess where I'm going with this is that I think more women don't participate in golf forums because there are idiots out there. Plain and simple.
 
92Esquire said:
I guess where I'm going with this is that I think more women don't participate in golf forums because there are idiots out there. Plain and simple.
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:good: :good:
 
That's depressing. Haven't seen that yet. Certainly our online personae tend to be just a small part of who we really are, magnified. So I'm willing to believe that the occasional boors have redeeming features.

Ultimately, though, it's just message boards.
 
ClairefromClare said:
Ditto--it was fun.

GolfGal, do you have any stats on hits to your blog? If would be so cool if we got more members here as a result of that.
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Hi Claire.

Well, I don't publish my stats, but I do have a page rank of 4, which says that my blog gets pretty good traffic. ;)

Cheers
Gayle
 
92Esquire said:
When I was in grad school I worked in the Humanities computer lab. One of my co-administrators was doing a PhD in education. His basic premise was that the internet (and this cool new tech called the World Wide Web, yes I'm that old) would revolutionize learning and enable free and open conversation about difficult topics (sexual harassment, racism, politics). His belief was that by making communication anonymous, the dialogue could be freed from stigma and fear of management or community repercussion.

(Stick with me, I'm going somewhere with this!)

I helped him by saving text logs from some of the early chat rooms I participated in, also from usenet threads. We basically shot his premise all to heck. What his dissertation turned into was the basic fact that truly anonymous communication does not work, because there is a significant portion of the population that cannot handle anonymity. Once you tell them that there's no punishment for opinions, some folks say the darndest things.

One of the incidents that he used as a basis was from a chatroom I participated in on blues music. There was a woman on the board as well as a couple of "regular" guys. MJ (who I still kept in touch with until a couple years ago) could hold her own in knowledge about the artists and music, no problem.

However, as the site got more popular, new folks came in. One day a couple guys started harassing MJ about wanting photos, addresses, etc. When they were called out by the guys who hung out there, they switched usernames to mimic the "regulars" admitting that they liked homosexual relationships. It spiraled out of control to the point where the chatroom was closed down for a while. In a lot of forums on the internet today, it's never gotten any better.

I guess where I'm going with this is that I think more women don't participate in golf forums because there are idiots out there. Plain and simple.
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Yes, there are idiots everywhere unfortunately. In my blog post I mentioned one of my interviews occured with a man from a popular golf forum - Kevin from North Carolinea. Well, Kevin has had his share of "bad experiences" on golf forums as well and I wrote an article for Inside Golf Magazine all about Kevin and his experience on forums. So bad behavior isn't just directed at women - men are targets too.
 
How are the statistics? eg,percentage of male golfers to female golfers,percentage of males to females on golf forums.
 
jefffann said:
How are the statistics? eg,percentage of male golfers to female golfers,percentage of males to females on golf forums.
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On her blog, she showed stats for four fori (say THAT three times fast). Basically looked to work out to 2:1 male:female.

That's misleading, for two reasons. First, it only counts people who stated whether they were male or female. According to GolfGirl, only 80% of men identify their sex, while almost 100% of women do. So men are underreported.

Also, that statistic lists initial forum registrations, not level of participation. However anecdotal, my personal experience is that a lesser percentage of women hang in there.
 
ClairefromClare said:
For reasons I still can't fully explain, I felt most at home at Shot Talk. Its owner was the only one who went to GFW to ask people to move over, and he created a women's forum for that express purpose.

Shot Talk ain't exactly a woman-friendly place (even though Patricia's blog is featured on the home page). The women's forum was instantly swamped by guys, complaining that their boys' club would be ruined. They've driven off any number of other women since I've been there (though it hasn't been the regulars who've done that). I'm surprised they claim to be 31% female. I'm the only woman who posts there at all regularly.

So why am I there? The guys have spent all winter trading clubs (which they insist on calling hoing--though hardly unique, that's insulting enough), building clubs, talking about guns, and posting pictures of naked women on the members' only forum. They tend to act like they've never seen a woman before--certainly not on the golf course.

On the other hand, they stick together in ways that are incredibly sweet. When someone has a baby, loses a parent, has open heart surgery, it's all raindrops & roses & whiskers on kittens. I get reasonably frequent PMs inquiring if someone has offended me and assuring me they'll back me up if someone gets out of bounds. And quite frankly, it's fun being the occasional center of attention. I've hung in there long enough and shown I know enough about the game that they respect me. But it was a hazing process.

Certainly THP has been a lot easier from day one, and my post count shows it.
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Thank you Claire, I haven't paid a lot of attention but I can most certainly say I haven't posted anything to drive any of the women who have ever posted there away. It frustrates myself when it turns into some sorta goofy AOl chatroom where someone thinks they can score. You & your posts have certainly helped to liven the place up & are appreciated.
 
We are just so glad that we have a place here that women seem to enjoy and can call home.
 
1 more thing I just thought of, the sorta boorish behavior you pointed out rears it's head quite often here anytime womans fashions, Paula Creamer, Gulbis, etc are mentioned. I find it tiresome myself but if a male mentions it then he is accused of being a topic cop or something else outlandish.
 
Im not sure I agree with that, but everyone gets an opinion here. We try to please everyone and all we ask is that people keep it clean and family friendly.
 
It basically just comes down to sheer numbers doesn't it? If I know 50 people (men) that golf, and I am the only one on a golf forum that is 2% forum participation. I know of only 6 or 7 females that golf regularly, and out of that pool 0% participate in forums. The pool of male golfers is much greater than that of female golfers so by default the participation in golf forums will be largely male.

On another hand, I think that women who golf usually do so with others (co-workers, friends, boyfriends/husbands, etc). Rarely, actually never, have I seen a female single show up at the course looking to get on. So from this point of view, there is a built in support staff there for them and they don't have the desire to go on to a forum looking for information. Plus, and I know they are out there, most women are not that passionate about sports. The women I know who play golf, none of them are really passionate about it. My friends wife, who plays with us often, doesn't get excited to play like we do. She loves to play, but she doesn't care about the outside stuff.

I think overall women like to play, but they don't care about the clubs they have, or what Phil and Tiger are doing, or what the hot golf vacation spot is in North Carolina.
 
StLCardsFan said:
It basically just comes down to sheer numbers doesn't it? If I know 50 people (men) that golf, and I am the only one on a golf forum that is 2% forum participation. I know of only 6 or 7 females that golf regularly, and out of that pool 0% participate in forums. The pool of male golfers is much greater than that of female golfers so by default the participation in golf forums will be largely male.

On another hand, I think that women who golf usually do so with others (co-workers, friends, boyfriends/husbands, etc). Rarely, actually never, have I seen a female single show up at the course looking to get on. So from this point of view, there is a built in support staff there for them and they don't have the desire to go on to a forum looking for information. Plus, and I know they are out there, most women are not that passionate about sports. The women I know who play golf, none of them are really passionate about it. My friends wife, who plays with us often, doesn't get excited to play like we do. She loves to play, but she doesn't care about the outside stuff.

I think overall women like to play, but they don't care about the clubs they have, or what Phil and Tiger are doing, or what the hot golf vacation spot is in North Carolina.
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I agree that the number of male golfers compared to female golfers are lopsided. However, there are more woman taking up the sport and some are just as obsessed with it as the guys. Personally, I go to the course all the time as a single, looking to pair up with others (guys or gals). 99% of the time, I am paired up with guys.

In relation to equipment, I am very interested in the type of equipment that I play, but I do have a support forum in my husband that does extensive research and has me try new stuff based upon my game. I am always looking for any advantage that equipment may provide.

So having said all of this, ladies come on, we need to introduce more women to this wonderful game that we enjoy and maybe they will love it as much as everyone on THP.
 
I couldn't have said that better myself CG. I agree we do need more women on here. I also want to add at the course I play at we have a lot of women who play and they go out as singles or as pairs. We don't care if we go alone or with friends we just want to get out there and have a good time, and improve our game.
 
dynarider said:
1 more thing I just thought of, the sorta boorish behavior you pointed out rears it's head quite often here anytime womans fashions, Paula Creamer, Gulbis, etc are mentioned. I find it tiresome myself but if a male mentions it then he is accused of being a topic cop or something else outlandish.
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Completely agree! I groan anytime a person starts a thread about an LPGA player, because I know where it's going...oh, and it goes there. I'm sorry you feel you can't say anything. That's really too bad, because a guy speaking up would have more effect. Believe me, there are names for women who speak up as well!

StLCardsFan said:
It basically just comes down to sheer numbers doesn't it? If I know 50 people (men) that golf, and I am the only one on a golf forum that is 2% forum participation. I know of only 6 or 7 females that golf regularly, and out of that pool 0% participate in forums. The pool of male golfers is much greater than that of female golfers so by default the participation in golf forums will be largely male.

On another hand, I think that women who golf usually do so with others (co-workers, friends, boyfriends/husbands, etc). Rarely, actually never, have I seen a female single show up at the course looking to get on. So from this point of view, there is a built in support staff there for them and they don't have the desire to go on to a forum looking for information. Plus, and I know they are out there, most women are not that passionate about sports. The women I know who play golf, none of them are really passionate about it. My friends wife, who plays with us often, doesn't get excited to play like we do. She loves to play, but she doesn't care about the outside stuff.

I think overall women like to play, but they don't care about the clubs they have, or what Phil and Tiger are doing, or what the hot golf vacation spot is in North Carolina.
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It is true that some women have "built in support staff" (I like that phrase). If she happens to have a good, patient male friend or S.O. who golfs then it's true. I find the opposite though - once I did start golfing, then I met men who golf. Not the other way around (once I met men who golf, I started golfing). I actually started teaching another guy friend of mine how to golf. I had a good laugh when he came shopping with me one time, and twice they approached him asked me through him what we both wanted. It was a riot.

What I've found, and this is just me, is that the men I know learn by feel. They go out there and hit the ball bunches and don't care to learn much beyond that. (That's the ones I know in personal life, not on the forum. Notice my S.O. is not on here, nor are any of those guy golfer friends I have.) I myself am a detailed, analytical person and I like reading and discussing, so I learn a lot here and on the internet. I get tired and frustrated just making repeated mistakes learning on the course, so I try to figure out the mistakes I'm making before I pick up the clubs. I take a cognitive approach...the men I know take an active approach.

So that's just me...what would be interesting to see would be
-stats of male golfers
-percentage of those male golfers on internet and forums
-stats of female golfers
-percentage of those female golfers on internet and forums

just because I suspect women may read and would like to ask questions more. Though I don't know for sure.
(Although I do agree this doesn't apply to equipment - women aren't as much of gear heads. The women I've met on forums aren't, at least. I'd rather fix an error in my game than buy a new club.)
 
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