TaylorMade ATV Sole vs. SCOR/Eidolon V Sole

[tacotruck]

According to TaylorMade, their new ATV wedge sole allows you to "play all critical shots with one wedge." The ATV sole "offers a multitude of strategically designed sole geometries, allowing you to play a wide range of shots with one wedge."

According to SCOR/Eidolon, the "V-Sole is the most versatile wedge sole ever devised... because it adapts to any lie you can imagine, gives you a measure of forgiveness no conventional wedge can match and it will never get in the way of your skill."

Can any one sole design really be optimal in any situation, off any lie, and for every swing type? Cleveland, Titleist, Scratch, and other great wedge makers offer a variety of bounce and grind options for their wedge soles, each one usually geared toward particular lie or swing type (slider vs. digger). What makes the ATV sole or the V-Sole more versatile that the other designs on the market?

 

[Sean]

I've driven an ATV (All Terrain Vehicle), but I've played golf with one.

 

[Jman]

According to TaylorMade, their new ATV wedge sole allows you to "play all critical shots with one wedge." The ATV sole "offers a multitude of strategically designed sole geometries, allowing you to play a wide range of shots with one wedge."

According to SCOR/Eidolon, the "V-Sole is the most versatile wedge sole ever devised... because it adapts to any lie you can imagine, gives you a measure of forgiveness no conventional wedge can match and it will never get in the way of your skill."

Can any one sole design really be optimal in any situation, off any lie, and for every swing type? Cleveland, Titleist, Scratch, and other great wedge makers offer a variety of bounce and grind options for their wedge soles, each one usually geared toward particular lie or swing type (slider vs. digger). What makes the ATV sole or the V-Sole more versatile that the other designs on the market?

There is a HUGE testing thread on SCOR's ongoing here with ton's of good input on the V-Soles.

I was a HUGE pessimist towards them but bit on the Eidolon's because of the closeout prices with them moving to SCOR's only and I'm truly glad I did. I honest to goodness believe in the V-Sole. I always struggled going form our bermuda lies here to dead hardpan and couldn't play that shot, now I really can play both by just letting the club work. I'm a believer.

 

[JF]

I cannot speak for the sole, but as for the one wedge thing, I disagree because you need different lofts for different situations. You definitely need at least 2 wedges.

 

[Jman]

I cannot speak for the sole, but as for the one wedge thing, I disagree because you need different lofts for different situations. You definitely need at least 2 wedges.

Lofts, yes most need more than one. I believe the OP's statement is more referring to the bounce of the wedges, i.e. can a wedge (say a 56*) be able to play form the bunker and off the hardpan because of the sole/grind. (IMO thats a yes with the V-Soles by the way).

 

[tacotruck]

Lofts, yes most need more than one. I believe the OP's statement is more referring to the bounce of the wedges, i.e. can a wedge (say a 56*) be able to play form the bunker and off the hardpan because of the sole/grind. (IMO thats a yes with the V-Soles by the way).

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. I know Cleveland offered a DSG sole that can be played as both a high bounce or low bounce wedge. The Cobra Trusty Rusty Tri-Bounce sole is also supposed to be a more versatile design that can be played as both a high bounce or low bounce wedge. If the V-Sole, ATV sole, DSG sole, or Tri-Bounce sole really are that versatile and able to handle every lie, situation, and swing type, why do Titleist, Cleveland, and Scratch bother making 3 different bounce/grind options for almost every loft?

There are obviously some very smart club makers at Titleist, Cleveland, and Scratch and I'd like to know why they feel their more specialized sole designs are superior to the more "versatile" sole designs of SCOR/Eidolon, TaylorMade, and Cobra.

 

[JR]

Everyone forgets the Bridgestone wedges when talking about soles. Those wedges are amazingly versatile.

 

[Jman]

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. I know Cleveland offered a DSG sole that can be played as both a high bounce or low bounce wedge. The Cobra Trusty Rusty Tri-Bounce sole is also supposed to be a more versatile design that can be played as both a high bounce or low bounce wedge. If the V-Sole, ATV sole, DSG sole, or Tri-Bounce sole really are that versatile and able to handle every lie, situation, and swing type, why do Titleist, Cleveland, and Scratch bother making 3 different bounce/grind options for almost every loft?

There are obviously some very smart club makers at Titleist, Cleveland, and Scratch and I'd like to know why they feel their more specialized sole designs are superior to the more "versatile" sole designs of SCOR/Eidolon, TaylorMade, and Cobra.

Its like anything else, its all about personal preference. Plus, some of the "big" guys know people will by the wedges the way they've been doing it for years, so why change it. For the courses I play the V-Sole/etc works best for me.

Everyone forgets the Bridgestone wedges when talking about soles. Those wedges are amazingly versatile.

Agreed Jake. Very V-Sole like IMO.

 

[JR]

Yup. I live and die by my J38. Next wedges I buy will be either more J38's or the J40.

Its like anything else, its all about personal preference. Plus, some of the "big" guys know people will by the wedges the way they've been doing it for years, so why change it. For the courses I play the V-Sole/etc works best for me.



Agreed Jake. Very V-Sole like IMO.

 

[tacotruck]

Everyone forgets the Bridgestone wedges when talking about soles. Those wedges are amazingly versatile.

Good point. Sorry about that omission. Variable Bounce Technology from Bridgestone is another great example. However, the question still remains. Whether it's the Bridgestone Variable Bounce Technology, V-Sole, ATV sole, DSG sole, or Tri-Bounce sole, can any one sole design really be optimal in any situation, off any lie, and for every swing type?

 

[Jman]

Yup. I live and die by my J38. Next wedges I buy will be either more J38's or the J40.

I hear ya, its how I feel about Eidolon/SCOR.

(Thought the J40's win in the looks department! hehe)

 

[JR]

There is no way to be optimal for everyone, no matter what they say. I know the J38 is a little tricky to use because of the sole, but for someone with the right swing, it makes flops and sand shots much easier.

Good point. Sorry about that omission. Variable Bounce Technology from Bridgestone is another great example. However, the question still remains. Whether it's the Bridgestone Variable Bounce Technology, V-Sole, ATV sole, DSG sole, or Tri-Bounce sole, can any one sole design really be optimal in any situation, off any lie, and for every swing type?

 

[tacotruck]

Its like anything else, its all about personal preference. Plus, some of the "big" guys know people will by the wedges the way they've been doing it for years, so why change it. For the courses I play the V-Sole/etc works best for me.

I understand that there is a lot to be said about subjective personal preference but SCOR/Eidolon market their V-Sole design as being objectively better than their competitors.

This is a quote from the SCOR Golf website regarding their V-Sole:

"Other wedges do not have this patented technology, so they are not this versatile and effective. It is really that simple."

The tagline for the new ATV wedge is "The Most Versatile Wedge in Golf"

There is obviously a lot of marketing going on here but there has to be some technology to back it up, no? Am I being too optimistic?

 

[Jman]

I understand that there is a lot to be said about subjective preference but SCOR/Eidolon market their V-Sole design as being objectively better than their competitors.

This is a quote from the SCOR Golf website regarding their V-Sole:

"Other wedges do not have this patented technology, so they are not this versatile and effective. It is really that simple."

I personally agree with that, and I know alot of the testers here in the SCOR thread likely would too.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

It's all about marketing...plain and simple. Scor is a smaller custom club company and they are doing a great job..but they don't have the marketing machine behind the that TM has....the V-sole, ATV, the VBT from Bridgestone....they are all similar....but different OEMs come up with different ways to market them to the public.

 

[tacotruck]

I personally agree with that, and I know alot of the testers here in the SCOR thread likely would too.

I've read through the SCOR thread and I think the number of SCOR fans on this forum is right up there with the number of Mashie fans. I guess I'm just confused as to why a big name in wedges like Titleist doesn't create or market a product that can handle every situation, lie, and swing type and instead chooses to create a lot of very specific options that are geared towards particular lies or swing types. Titleist must feel there is an advantage to their approach to wedge design and I'd like to know their reasons. I think it'd be really interesting to hear Bob Vokey's thoughts on wedge designs like the SCOR 4161 or TaylorMade ATV.

 

[Jman]

I've read through the SCOR thread and I think the number of SCOR fans on this forum is right up there with the number of Mashie fans. I guess I'm just confused as to why a big name in wedges like Titleist doesn't create or market a product that can handle every situation, lie, and swing type and instead chooses to create a lot of very specific options that are geared towards particular lies or swing types. Titleist must feel there is an advantage to their approach to wedge design and I'd like to know their reasons. I think it'd be really interesting to hear Bob Vokey's thoughts on wedge designs like the SCOR 4161 or TaylorMade ATV.

I agree with you, I think the simple answer you'd get though will be they don't need to. People will buy their wedges no matter what, so why re-tool or change too much when you've been doing something so long and sales are still phenomenal.

 

[tacotruck]

I agree with you, I think the simple answer you'd get though will be they don't need to. People will buy their wedges no matter what, so why re-tool or change too much when you've been doing something so long and sales are still phenomenal.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it right? I guess that's what makes Titleist who they are. On the flip side, TaylorMade just did away with their Burner line even though their sales were solid and Callaway did away with their Big Bertha line a few years back even though their sales were solid. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Anyway, I think it would be really interesting to get Roger Cleveland, Bob Vokey, Phil Rodgers, the guys from SCOR/Eidolon, TaylorMade, Scratch, and other wedge gurus in the same room and hear them debate the merits of various sole designs. One sole design for all lies, conditions, and swing types vs. soles designed for specific lies, conditions, and swing types. If soles designed for more specific uses do perform better than more "versatile" designs, are the performance gains significant enough in that particular use that they justify its short comings in other areas?

 

[bassing33]

I think it would be safe to say that a sole designed for a specific lie or turf will perform better (in the right setting) than a "versatile" sole. However, we all know that in golf we get all kinds of lies and turfs etc. So unless you really know what you want, (which the average golfer doesn't, when it comes to such technical things) then a versatile sole might be better for your average joe. There are a lot of golfers who don't even understand bounce, let alone specialty grinds and sole designs.

 

[tacotruck]

I think it would be safe to say that a sole designed for a specific lie or turf will perform better (in the right setting) than a "versatile" sole. However, we all know that in golf we get all kinds of lies and turfs etc. So unless you really know what you want, (which the average golfer doesn't, when it comes to such technical things) then a versatile sole might be better for your average joe. There are a lot of golfers who don't even understand bounce, let alone specialty grinds and sole designs.

Agreed. As an average joe myself, I'm leaning towards going with a wedge that has a more versatile sole like the new TaylorMade ATV or SCOR 4161. I love my Scratch wedges but I struggle with them out of the sand. I loved my old 588's out of the sand but I struggled with them off tight lies.