Future of Product Testing on THP

[Griff]

Great point about people buying what they test. I plan on buying some SCORs when my testing is done. I would like lofts that suit my game a little better and I have mentioned this in the testing thread.

I pretty much trust everyone when they write a review. We can only relate our experiences and those are largely based on what we have hit in the past and currently own. Most testers do not have access to a huge selection of clubs for comparison. When someone says "This is the best driver I have ever used!" I pretty much believe them. Has to be taken into context based on their past experiences. We are amateurs in testing and golfing and don't have access to a stable of clubs for long term comparison. Hitting a couple shots with something in Golf Galaxy doesn't qualify as a "test" IMO. Can get some quick impressions, that's about all.

For me, the integrity of the testing process is rock solid.

 

[Damaikis]

Just read all of the posts from today on this thread and whew. It seems that for the most part this has been sorted out. I actually like this thread because I believe discussions like this one are in general good for the community.

 

[TC]

Just read all of the posts from today on this thread and whew. It seems that for the most part this has been sorted out. I actually like this thread because I believe discussions like this one are in general good for the community.

I don't know what there was to sort out. I still am not sure if my review posts come across as full of fluff or not. In fact, I think a lot of people might feel this way. I'm not sure there's any sort of resolve to any of this.

 

[Damaikis]

I don't know what there was to sort out. I still am not sure if my review posts come across as full of fluff or not. In fact, I think a lot of people might feel this way. I'm not sure there's any sort of resolve to any of this.

There was a discussion to be had, and I think it was good to get it out there. Whether it changes the way people review or not (I don't really think it should), some people clearly thought it was an issue and it was brought out and discussed.

 

[interlooper]

Of course testing is subjective...all testing by human beings is subjective and is the opinion of the tester. As a tester it's my job to convey both my findings in the equipment as well as how that relates to my game before the new equipment and summarize that as either good or bad. I think you'll find that most reviewers will follow up a good ball flight comment with a description of said ball flight, you must determine if that's your desired ball flight or not.

In the end, outside of your statement that testers may feel pressure to give only positive feedback, then it sounds to me that if the tester referring only to clubs you have or have had (in item 1), with a duplicate swing of yours (item 2), and you and the tester agree on "what's a good ball flight", then any feedback a tester has would be unrelated to you.

The 3 items you addressed would be the only way you, yourself, could test the clubs as well. If you get the desired or similar results to what you know to be true in your game, then the answers would be labeled positive and if not, negative.

Outside of giving someone like me (higher HC) a set of PGA Tour blades with 1-1/2" long X-Stiff shafts, I don't think you'll see an abundance of just bad/negative reviews.

Edited: I reviewed my wording and wasn't meaning to sound rude to interlooper, just pointing out my opinions.

That is not what I am saying at all. Either you misunderstand my post, or I drafted it poorly. No worries.

 

[TRyan]

Im another guy who has tried to stay out of this, but I feel like if something is to be fleshed out of all of this it will require input, so here comes mine.

I joined this site when I was searching for reviews on the Victoy Red full cavities. Once I found this site I was immediately welcome from day one by people like JB, GG, TC, CL, all the regulars around here made me feel like I could post and not get criticized or called "stupid" for things I didnt understand. When I foundout that THP offered testing to their members I was pretty ecstatic. Honestly getting feedback from peers, to me at least, is much more beneficial than reading golf digests summary about the thickness of the face and the offset in degrees.

I think that having reviews from people who struggle like me, who hit the fat shots, the slices, the hooks, is much better than some guy with a robot-like swing putting the ball on the green everytime. THP has this right IMO. Some people I guess have voiced problems with the reviews maybe being "too positive," but for some reason I havnt really seen that. Everything I have tested I have provided feedback to the best of my ability, and made it as honest as possible, and it seems to me like others are doing that as well.

I think it would be a shame to see forum testing come to an end because of a few lousy people, but JB and GG do have to keep the best interests of this site in mind. I know that regardless I have made friends here and even played with a fellow THPer and my love for this site wont change, forum testing or not, but I truly believe that having feedback from my peers helps me make decisions on things I would have otherwise never have considered.

I think JB and GG do a great job with this site and I am guilty of spending a heck of a lot of time here, but again I have never felt so welcomed on a forum in my life. The banter, the FF, and the club reviews all play a part in making this the best forum on the web.

 

[Esox]

That is not what I am saying at all. Either you misunderstand my post, or I drafted it poorly. No worries.

I think you and I are on the same page. I was not trying to be negative about the reviews that take place here. Far from it. When I first came to this site more than two years ago, there was very little testing. My first thought was it was kind of weird to have Joe Weekend Golfer testing clubs, but soon realized that it was actually a pretty neat idea. Your average golfer can relate to someone that plays like he does talking about equipment he might be considering. And I truly believe testers do the very best they can in most cases doing what in reality is not an easy job. Conveying one's thoughts in writing is not easy. Add to that a subconscious knowledge that you were given the clubs you are testing increases the difficulty of the job.

I'm in a profession that requires me to do considerable writing and analysis in an unbiased and objective way. In theory that should be pretty straightforward, yet there are little things that I have to consider carefully so I'm not swayed.

I really doubt I could be a reliable unbiased tester. I appreciate those that do it, but there is always the possibility that some will be swayed and not even realize it, and always the possibility a segment of the audience will have in the back of their minds that testers are giving glowing reviews because they were given equipment. That's the cynical nature of people in general.

All that being said, it's a pretty cool and unique reviewing system here at THP. I'm not sure there's a better way that wouldn't involve eliminating the personal nature of the reviews that take place here. And that would be a shame and change the site's character.

Kevin

 

[d_in_la]

Im another guy who has tried to stay out of this, but I feel like if something is to be fleshed out of all of this it will require input, so here comes mine.

I joined this site when I was searching for reviews on the Victoy Red full cavities. Once I found this site I was immediately welcome from day one by people like JB, GG, TC, CL, all the regulars around here made me feel like I could post and not get criticized or called "stupid" for things I didnt understand. When I foundout that THP offered testing to their members I was pretty ecstatic. Honestly getting feedback from peers, to me at least, is much more beneficial than reading golf digests summary about the thickness of the face and the offset in degrees.

I think that having reviews from people who struggle like me, who hit the fat shots, the slices, the hooks, is much better than some guy with a robot-like swing putting the ball on the green everytime. THP has this right IMO. Some people I guess have voiced problems with the reviews maybe being "too positive," but for some reason I havnt really seen that. Everything I have tested I have provided feedback to the best of my ability, and made it as honest as possible, and it seems to me like others are doing that as well.

I think it would be a shame to see forum testing come to an end because of a few lousy people, but JB and GG do have to keep the best interests of this site in mind. I know that regardless I have made friends here and even played with a fellow THPer and my love for this site wont change, forum testing or not, but I truly believe that having feedback from my peers helps me make decisions on things I would have otherwise never have considered.

I think JB and GG do a great job with this site and I am guilty of spending a heck of a lot of time here, but again I have never felt so welcomed on a forum in my life. The banter, the FF, and the club reviews all play a part in making this the best forum on the web.

TH, that bolded paragraph up there is exactly what I think.

I am a content aggregator. Before I make decisions I like to find out as much relevant information as I can. I find that THP testing is fairer than most if not all. (And I don't mean good looking!) The honesty and different points of view are what brought me to site, what compelled me to join and what drives me to give regular updates on the club I've been chosen to test. It is also why I ask questions in many threads.

So if you think a testing thread is too effusive, ask. Every tester, every forum member, has been great - even when some of us *cough*me*cough* skim a thread and ask a question that has already been answered.

I'm thrilled to be a newbie voice on this forum and be asked to test a club - I take it seriously and I firmly believe so do 99% of the people who get chosen.

 

[interlooper]

I think you and I are on the same page. I was not trying to be negative about the reviews that take place here. Far from it. When I first came to this site more than two years ago, there was very little testing. My first thought was it was kind of weird to have Joe Weekend Golfer testing clubs, but soon realized that it was actually a pretty neat idea. Your average golfer can relate to someone that plays like he does talking about equipment he might be considering. And I truly believe testers do the very best they can in most cases doing what in reality is not an easy job. Conveying one's thoughts in writing is not easy. Add to that a subconscious knowledge that you were given the clubs you are testing increases the difficulty of the job.

I'm in a profession that requires me to do considerable writing and analysis in an unbiased and objective way. In theory that should be pretty straightforward, yet there are little things that I have to consider carefully so I'm not swayed.

I really doubt I could be a reliable unbiased tester. I appreciate those that do it, but there is always the possibility that some will be swayed and not even realize it, and always the possibility a segment of the audience will have in the back of their minds that testers are giving glowing reviews because they were given equipment. That's the cynical nature of people in general.

All that being said, it's a pretty cool and unique reviewing system here at THP. I'm not sure there's a better way that wouldn't involve eliminating the personal nature of the reviews that take place here. And that would be a shame and change the site's character.

Kevin

Yeah, Kevin. We are on the exact same page! I love the reviews from "hackers" like me. Pros and cons to the system, but I think the pros can outweigh the cons. There is a charm about the member reviews. And I find a great deal of information from reading reviews from members in which i know their game, particularly when I know their swing tendencies are the same as mine.

 

[2Shoes]

That is not what I am saying at all. Either you misunderstand my post, or I drafted it poorly. No worries.

I'm certain I misunderstood. I re-read how I worded my response and I sounded to myself like I was attacking your post and I certainly wasn't trying to do that. I really enjoy everyone's point of view and I can see both "sides" (if you will) about testing. On one hand I agree that hearing some of the responses has me thinking about my own testing and am I giving you all the feelings I have and on the other, like TC stated, if I don't have anything but positive to say I would be equally as wrong to force something I didn't feel 100% about just to make everyone believe I'm honestly reviewing the product.

 

[blink1282]

im very new to this forum but i really love reading reviews about products. the idea of having hands on reviews from every skill level of golfer is wonderful. i feel like i can get an accurate idea of how something performs by reading something from a golfer with a handicap close to mine. i mean you can read 1 or 2 sentence reviews on golfsmith all day and really learn nothing. as far as im concerned, im happy reading reviews from whoever does the testing. and if i get an opportunity one day then that is great too. i really love this site and intend to be very involved in posting and being an active THP member

 

[lullabynoir]

im very new to this forum but i really love reading reviews about products. the idea of having hands on reviews from every skill level of golfer is wonderful. i feel like i can get an accurate idea of how something performs by reading something from a golfer with a handicap close to mine. i mean you can read 1 or 2 sentence reviews on golfsmith all day and really learn nothing. as far as im concerned, im happy reading reviews from whoever does the testing. and if i get an opportunity one day then that is great too. i really love this site and intend to be very involved in posting and being an active THP member

^this

I'm new to this as well (thanks to you) and express the same. Hope everything works out as originally intended by the founder(s) of this site/forum!

 

[Jersey Nate]

^this

I'm new to this as well (thanks to you) and express the same. Hope everything works out as originally intended by the founder(s) of this site/forum!

As another new member (about to meet some THPers in person) I do agree...product reviews on this site have been absolutely wonderful. Thorough, well thought up, and incredibly helpful...although they have put a LOT more options into my head as far as equipment (and that isn't a bad thing). I do hope to eventually become a tester at some point, but that isn't the point of the website....I love the community here already, and am very content to be able to learn so much from everyone here. Hopefully I'll be able to help someone out down the line.

 

[bobgeorge]

All:

I am like a lot of people here in that I enjoy reading the feedback that average golfers provide. My only recommendation would be to standardize the format of how the reviews/feedback are given. Below is a good example of driver format:

Age: 35
Years playing golf: 5
Avg rounds per month: 7
Handicap/Avg Score (for golfers without a handicap): 15
Current Driver: Callaway XXXX
Avg Distance: 260
Normal Tendencies: Fade, draw, high...etc
Product Testing: Taylor Made XXX
Pros (compared to current driver):
Cons (compared to current driver):
Additional Feedback:

I think having a stardard format regarding the golfer & current equimpment makes for a good baseline on how much the new driver is better/worse than your current driver. A similar format could be used for irons, woods, hybrids, etc.

BG

 

[Smallville]

Bob, we have a thread for suggestions on how to present your review: http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...orum-Testing-Example-Thread&highlight=testing.

In the end though, what works for one person might not be the best for another person. I kind of like seeing different ways people do their reports.

 

[JB]

Some of our last few forum testings have involved me on multiple occasions having to reach out to people to find out where they are. People going 2-3 weeks in between posts and/or vanishing altogether. I know life gets in the why a lot, and completely respect that, but if that is the case, when we contact someone about it, do the right thing and either get back to it, or return the equipment.

I know people like free things, and we love to be able to oblige, but between people getting angry that they are not selected, or multiple sets of irons, drivers, etc going missing it is becoming harder and harder to continue to do this. Im not pointing any fingers and do not want people to take it that way. The people that have been contacted, know what they have to do, but it is getting very hard to convey to companies "it was a one time thing and won't happen again".

We try to make it easy on everybody and reach out to them via PM first. We hope they respond and correct things, but if they don't, it can become an issue. People need to know that when they get contacted by us via PM, it is because we have been contacted by someone either at the company supporting the testing, the PR company, or marketing company. That means that they are seeing the lack of productivity and would like to know where they stand.

Again I want to reiterate that we completely understand that life can get in the way and everybody gets too busy from time to time. Just remember that if that is the case, and you hear from us, please get back to us so we have some kind of communication. Thanks for listening.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

Some of our last few forum testings have involved me on multiple occasions having to reach out to people to find out where they are. People going 2-3 weeks in between posts and/or vanishing altogether. I know life gets in the why a lot, and completely respect that, but if that is the case, when we contact someone about it, do the right thing and either get back to it, or return the equipment.

I know people like free things, and we love to be able to oblige, but between people getting angry that they are not selected, or multiple sets of irons, drivers, etc going missing it is becoming harder and harder to continue to do this. Im not pointing any fingers and do not want people to take it that way. The people that have been contacted, know what they have to do, but it is getting very hard to convey to companies "it was a one time thing and won't happen again".

We try to make it easy on everybody and reach out to them via PM first. We hope they respond and correct things, but if they don't, it can become an issue. People need to know that when they get contacted by us via PM, it is because we have been contacted by someone either at the company supporting the testing, the PR company, or marketing company. That means that they are seeing the lack of productivity and would like to know where they stand.

Again I want to reiterate that we completely understand that life can get in the way and everybody gets too busy from time to time. Just remember that if that is the case, and you hear from us, please get back to us so we have some kind of communication. Thanks for listening.

Great post JB! Very well put.

 

[yorkem]

Some of our last few forum testings have involved me on multiple occasions having to reach out to people to find out where they are. People going 2-3 weeks in between posts and/or vanishing altogether. I know life gets in the why a lot, and completely respect that, but if that is the case, when we contact someone about it, do the right thing and either get back to it, or return the equipment.

I know people like free things, and we love to be able to oblige, but between people getting angry that they are not selected, or multiple sets of irons, drivers, etc going missing it is becoming harder and harder to continue to do this. Im not pointing any fingers and do not want people to take it that way. The people that have been contacted, know what they have to do, but it is getting very hard to convey to companies "it was a one time thing and won't happen again".

We try to make it easy on everybody and reach out to them via PM first. We hope they respond and correct things, but if they don't, it can become an issue. People need to know that when they get contacted by us via PM, it is because we have been contacted by someone either at the company supporting the testing, the PR company, or marketing company. That means that they are seeing the lack of productivity and would like to know where they stand.

Again I want to reiterate that we completely understand that life can get in the way and everybody gets too busy from time to time. Just remember that if that is the case, and you hear from us, please get back to us so we have some kind of communication. Thanks for listening.

I hope everyone takes this to heart. Testing is a privilege, not a right, and if people keep disappearing with equipment it will no longer occur.

 

[10YardDraw]

I hope everyone takes this to heart. Testing is a privilege, not a right, and if people keep disappearing with equipment it will no longer occur.

I agree, its a shame its happening.

 

[Damaikis]

I hope everyone takes this to heart. Testing is a privilege, not a right, and if people keep disappearing with equipment it will no longer occur.

Well put Yorkem. It really is a tough job and not too many people realize that. Good post.

 

[Jersey Nate]

Some of our last few forum testings have involved me on multiple occasions having to reach out to people to find out where they are. People going 2-3 weeks in between posts and/or vanishing altogether. I know life gets in the why a lot, and completely respect that, but if that is the case, when we contact someone about it, do the right thing and either get back to it, or return the equipment.

I know people like free things, and we love to be able to oblige, but between people getting angry that they are not selected, or multiple sets of irons, drivers, etc going missing it is becoming harder and harder to continue to do this. Im not pointing any fingers and do not want people to take it that way. The people that have been contacted, know what they have to do, but it is getting very hard to convey to companies "it was a one time thing and won't happen again".

We try to make it easy on everybody and reach out to them via PM first. We hope they respond and correct things, but if they don't, it can become an issue. People need to know that when they get contacted by us via PM, it is because we have been contacted by someone either at the company supporting the testing, the PR company, or marketing company. That means that they are seeing the lack of productivity and would like to know where they stand.

Again I want to reiterate that we completely understand that life can get in the way and everybody gets too busy from time to time. Just remember that if that is the case, and you hear from us, please get back to us so we have some kind of communication. Thanks for listening.

Great point, great post...I hope people know how lucky they are and the responsibility that they have to give their own viewpoint on a product so that we ALL can benefit.

 

[DB]

Kevin,

I also agree that objective reviewing is difficult for THP testers. In fact, I think it is largely impossible. All testing is going to be rather subjective because it will be based, in large part, on (1) their experiences with past similar clubs, (2) their particular swing, (3) their own understanding on what is a good ball flight, etc. Testers could make it more objective by simply posting the readings from a trakman and the reading of other similar clubs. But, in reality, I think we all are very interested in the subjective reasonings as well.

The problem arises when the tester may perceive that there is an incentive to only relaying the "good stuff" about a product or to exaggerate the better parts of a product. I do not know of any specific examples and have never looked. But, as I noted very early in this thread (as you did as well), that perceived incentive to be less-than-perfectly-honest could possibly exist. It is possible that a tester may think that they wouldn't be invited to test again if their reviews are not favorable enough. JB and GG have been very straightforward in calling for HONEST feedback, so I do not believe that to be a case... but you cannot know what is in the head of all testers.

In the pro/con analysis, it is one of the cons of allowing member testing/reviewing. I pesonally think there are numerous pros to member testing, but, obviously, there are going to be some negatives.

On a side note, in the Yonex testing thread, there were both reviews that praised the club as the greatest thing since sliced bread and reviews that noted that it was a great club, but not the best. Ironically, the person who gave the most praise decided to purchase another one of the clubs in a different loft. That, right there, is incredible evidence that there was no BS coming from that tester!

I personally enjoy the vast majority of testing in these forums!!!

I agree with you 100% Good wright up well written.

I think everyone needs to remember JB is doing this for us. He certainly doesn't have too be giving out equipment and letting us even have the great opportunity too review the equipment. All-though i don't think it should be really based on post and more on the activity level.

I would like too remind everyone too loosen up!! & remember were all a big family on this forum. When i joined everyone welcomed me with open arms and thats why i love THP so much. Everyone is super friendly and has great knowledge. This is a site for a bunch of beauty golfers too chat about there games and talk golf or even sports in general! We don't need any negativity. But i respect JB for even having this discussion because i personally wouldn't have gave people the attention of whining. But open discussion is healthy for a family

hahah just my 2 bits

 

[Ole Gray]

All I got to say is:

All I got to say is:

:wtf: are they thinking? Come on now and get serious dudes and own up to the privilege!

 

[TripleBogieTim]

Some of our last few forum testings have involved me on multiple occasions having to reach out to people to find out where they are. People going 2-3 weeks in between posts and/or vanishing altogether. I know life gets in the why a lot, and completely respect that, but if that is the case, when we contact someone about it, do the right thing and either get back to it, or return the equipment.

I know people like free things, and we love to be able to oblige, but between people getting angry that they are not selected, or multiple sets of irons, drivers, etc going missing it is becoming harder and harder to continue to do this. Im not pointing any fingers and do not want people to take it that way. The people that have been contacted, know what they have to do, but it is getting very hard to convey to companies "it was a one time thing and won't happen again".

We try to make it easy on everybody and reach out to them via PM first. We hope they respond and correct things, but if they don't, it can become an issue. People need to know that when they get contacted by us via PM, it is because we have been contacted by someone either at the company supporting the testing, the PR company, or marketing company. That means that they are seeing the lack of productivity and would like to know where they stand.

Again I want to reiterate that we completely understand that life can get in the way and everybody gets too busy from time to time. Just remember that if that is the case, and you hear from us, please get back to us so we have some kind of communication. Thanks for listening.

Great post JB, testing is hard work and takes lots of time and yes other less fun things like work, family and illness can get in the way. Sometimes I don't think people realize the commitment it requires when they sign up. Maybe it might be a good practice to require testers to provide you and GG with phone numbers for contact purposes? Just a thought, I just hate to see the end of the THP testing program, especially since when you read the "what brought you to THP thread" most people seem to say they found this place when looking for reviews on new equipment.

Whatever you and GG decide needs to happen I will support your decision 100%.

 

[chewie69]

I hope everyone takes this to heart. Testing is a privilege, not a right, and if people keep disappearing with equipment it will no longer occur.

I completely agree, and I was blown away when selected to test the Cleveland CG Black Driver. I am very humbled by the privilege to get to test this club and appreciate the trust that has been placed on me to carry out this testing. I view my testing almost like I would a second job. Yes, I do get to keep the club at the end of testing, and yes I do get to be out on the driving range and the course with this club. However, I write more on my scorecard now than I ever have before (direction of drive, estimated distance, why I had a mishit, etc), and when I get home I write out how the round or range session went and upload photos and videos. Everyone that puts there name in for a testing needs to understand that yes you could be getting some incredible equipment, but the more incredible the equipment, the more incredible the responsibility becomes, and the more the companies are going to expect.